ADUK Archive

So this morning I was in rush hour traffic in Bristol and someone was waiting to turn right in front of me. I eased off to open a gap in the stream of traffic to make it easy for them. I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way. Then a bike appeared coming towards me filtering on the outside of the line of traffic. All ended fine - the driver waited patiently for the bike to overtake and then turned...but it got me thinking...

Is there anything I could have done to make the driver aware? Perhaps a horn to make them look at me and doubt turning just for a second or two? Or it may have made the cyclist look ahead and slow or stop?

Is there a case for never giving way...just in case?

martine wrote:So this morning I was in rush hour traffic in Bristol and someone was waiting to turn right in front of me. I eased off to open a gap in the stream of traffic to make it easy for them. I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way. Then a bike appeared coming towards me filtering on the outside of the line of traffic. All ended fine - the driver waited patiently for the bike to overtake and then turned...but it got me thinking...

Is there anything I could have done to make the driver aware? Perhaps a horn to make them look at me and doubt turning just for a second or two? Or it may have made the cyclist look ahead and slow or stop?

Is there a case for never giving way...just in case?

Seems to me your actions were entirely correct. You gave the the car driver an opportunity, which didn't absolve them of their responsibility to follow the correct procedure for their intended manoeuvre .
Use of your horn would have probably confused both driver and cyclist.
Then, the cyclist, should be riding much as we here would drive in this situation, meaning being aware that others may emerge from side roads in stop start urban traffic.

Filtering (if that's what this was) by those on two wheels is a useful facility for them, but it is sometimes used in an imprudent fashion, and overtaking a vehicle that is waiting to turn right is an example of that. Presumably the vehicle waiting to turn right was signalling his intention? Even if he wasn't signalling, his position and speed may have been sufficient to indicate his intention.

I don't see what else you could reasonably have done, Martin: although in my case the bloody-minded element of my nature sometimes tempts me to leave insufficient room for the pushy filterers.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

martine wrote:So this morning I was in rush hour traffic in Bristol and someone was waiting to turn right in front of me. I eased off to open a gap in the stream of traffic to make it easy for them. I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way. Then a bike appeared coming towards me filtering on the outside of the line of traffic. All ended fine - the driver waited patiently for the bike to overtake and then turned...but it got me thinking...

Is there anything I could have done to make the driver aware? Perhaps a horn to make them look at me and doubt turning just for a second or two? Or it may have made the cyclist look ahead and slow or stop?

Is there a case for never giving way...just in case?

I don't really have much to add to what's already been said. I just wonder what would have happened if you had flashed your lights. I don't see it's a problem allowing a bit or room for someone to take an opportunity if they so wish.

I've very often had other drivers flashing to the point of road rage because I wouldn't take their word for it that it was safe to go. The other annoying one is when you're turning right into a side road, you anticipate the time it will take for the single car coming the other way to pass, only to have the fool slow down and flash, resulting in the turn taking longer than it would have had he simply carried on.

as a cyclist who witnessed just such an incident which unfortunately didn't turn out in the same manner (prosecution pending, me as a witness ) I don't think you could have done anything different.

The cyclist shouldn't have been overtaking a car indicating to turn right in the first place...

I often go down the outside of stationary traffic even when there is a cycle lane provided - it just feels safer being visible to more road users, with more escape routes.

martine wrote:... I eased off to open a gap in the stream of traffic to make it easy for them. I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way. Then a bike appeared coming towards me filtering on the outside of the line of traffic.

Hope this doesn't come across as critical but were you actively seeking filtering traffic as during the easing off/eye contact stage?

The reason I ask is, because filtering traffic is out of sync with the normal flow, I find it difficult to spot without actively looking for it. There is an argument that unless you can see that there is not filtering traffic and your vision is sufficient to be confident it will not suddenly appear then you should avoid encouraging right turning traffic altogether.

MGF wrote:...were you actively seeking filtering traffic as during the easing off/eye contact stage?

I did look but it was on a gentle right-hand bend and at the time I eased back it there wasn't any filtering traffic...

MGF wrote:...unless you can see that there is not filtering traffic and your vision is sufficient to be confident it will not suddenly appear then you should avoid encouraging right turning traffic altogether.

Yes good point...this is not something I'd considered before this event...yet another 'experiece' to file away for use in similar situations.

Crikey this 'advanced' thing is hard...I sometimes wish I could go back 12 years and drive in blissful ignorance...

martine wrote:So this morning I was in rush hour traffic in Bristol and someone was waiting to turn right in front of me. I eased off to open a gap in the stream of traffic to make it easy for them. I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way. Then a bike appeared coming towards me filtering on the outside of the line of traffic. All ended fine - the driver waited patiently for the bike to overtake and then turned...but it got me thinking...

Is there anything I could have done to make the driver aware? Perhaps a horn to make them look at me and doubt turning just for a second or two? Or it may have made the cyclist look ahead and slow or stop?

Is there a case for never giving way...just in case?

Not much I'd think.

Did you just slow down in slow traffic or did you actually stop for him to get in?
One thing you can do is, just don't open up such gaps. I see many people deliberately stopping out of a (wrong) sense of politeness then holding up all traffic behind them (which causes some to overtake). Bad habit in the UK, not very common on the continent.

Steph

Steph, if people didn't create gaps no-one would get anywhere.

Pulling off my driveway some mornings I'm sat there for 5 minutes waiting for a gap, or boot it into a gap just big enough.

Dom

martine wrote:I didn't gesticulate or flash lights or anything but made solid eye contact with them to make it clear I was giving way.

I've been thinking about the eye contact thing. You must have been quite close for eye contact to have been possible. I understand why you didn't gesticulate or flash your headlights, but could deliberately making eye contact potentially have the same undesired effect - tending to make the other driver feel they must hurry? I appreciate that's not what happened in this case. It's just something that's been going round in my mind since I read you post.
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