Positioning for Vision

[James]

Exactly. It means that the courses are thrown around like bird seed. If your the lucky bird then fine. But one week you might be the bird that is in the right spot... the next week the seed is scattered elsewhere.

The courses are allocated to units on the basis of need. The selection criteria & ultimately the candidate selected is a matter for the unit allocated the course.

Some departments get a far higher allocation of advanced courses because they have much larger "advanced" vehicle fleets & therefore require more advanced drivers to drive them.

Of course... I mean on a local basis. For example... (apologies to those not in the know)

EK provide roughly 3 a year, sometimes the BSU get it, sometimes it goes to teams, more often than not it goes to where it is needed!

On team you have a "variable" chance. If Chf Insp Ops decides the course should go to, "that place", if your in "that place", you run a better chance of getting a course. But you cannot move around in the hope that the course will be allocated to where it was last time as the post has been filled so it is all guesswork!

Of course, the goalposts move on a regular basis. Its all gravy baby.

Would love to meet/speak to you sometime Von. Doubt you would reciprocate this... Suprise me... My hearts in the right place.

Peace to all, no bad thoughts!!!

[James]

7db wrote:


I can't see how blue lights changes things much.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Police Driver wrote....


!!!!!!!!!! Oh my goodness. When blue lights prevail, everything changes. This might start a war so I am ready, I would rather hope that I would be backed up for once on this one.

Positioning becomes crucial, an oncoming civilian car on a long gradual bend will startle and annoy, blue lights will warn and "gain a a reaction".

The sooner you see us the sooner you can react, therefore, the sooner we can react to your reaction and make swifter smoother progress.On a straight road where the overtake is NOT on, if it is safe, popping out and "showing" yourself to oncoming traffic will enable them FAR sooner to prepare and deal with you as they will see you and understand what it is to come.

Blue lights change EVERYTHING, trust me... A whole new application of the system;

"Taking an early bold position for vision and to give others time to react"

"Letting the lights and two tones do the work"

"Waiting for people to settle and sort themselves out before commiting"

~~~~~~~~~~~

What about when you are overtaking on a widish BEND and scare the hell out of an oncoming driver? It's all very well having blue lights, headlights flashing and sirens on, but when the above scenario happened to me a year ago, I obviously could NOT see what was about to happen, and strange as it may seem, I could NOT hear his sirens until we actually met up on the bend and thats when I got the full force of the triple whammy!! Yes, it more than startled me....and annoyed me. Any number of factors could have temporarily caused me to swing out on that bend - potholes, horse-riders, cyclists, debris on road, etc. My radio was on a low volume at the time which did not matter anyway as I had mentioned before that I didn't hear the siren until we nearly or potentially 'locked bumpers'! Hardly safe manouvering in my eyes on that particular day!! Just to clarify, he was not overtaking ON the bend, but before the bend, hence my comments.

I know what you mean... All I can say is that I aways drive so as to be able to stop in the distance I can see to be clear, on my own side of the road AND ALSO BEAR IN MIND MY DRIVING'S LIKELY IMPACT ON THOSE AROUND ME, NO MATTER THEIR POSITION.

I am not reckless, in fact, as taught, SAFETY is the priority. Maybe I write things poorly. On a "widish" bend I would seriously consider what I am going to do.

"Pulling into my stop over gap to moniter where the road goes"

"Waiting until I can see both sides of the road before commiting"

"Excercsing restraint where necessary"

[brianhaddon]

Interesting thread P_D. See what a simple question can lead to? . Just to clarify I wasn't asking the question out of concern as I was quite happy with P_D's positioning. It's just that making use of position on bends in that manner is open to more problems in restricted areas with more hazards present and chances for confusion that I was wondering what P_D's approach on the principle was. As Von writes - it is easy for people to get mixed up on all this positioning lark.(not quite his words) We discussed positioning and dealt with many different scenarios on the drive and I was in agreement with P_D's approach each time. Also in my experience different assocociations/organisations have different approaches and the style in which offsiding or driving to the crown is not encouraged as much is the DSA style as shown to me in my ADI training. It is a long time since I trained with the IAM and have progressed a bit since then and am, as I mentioned on the drive, entirely happy with using whatever area of the road is available if safe [,legal] and of benefit - including Von's mention of offside positioning.
Brian Haddon

[Lady Godiva]

Dear Mr Vonhosen and PD

As a new IAM member, I am still developing my thinking, never mind my drving. Bearing that in mind, could you please help.

Assuming I am in a 30mph zone. The road has a relatively tight bend to the left. The walls are such that they preclude seeing around the bend, and no vision was possible on the approach. I always thought I should be positioned towards the crown (without the right hand side of the car going over the line of course) to get as much early vision as possible. However, on reading your posts, it seems I should be either in the centre of the lane, or even tucked in to the left, to avoide the possibility of coming into adverse contact with an unseen hazard i.e. a solo going fast, etc.

So should I position towards the crown, or towards the side. Does this apply in a 40mph zone. I appreciate you cannot give exact answers, but guidance would be appreciated. I've always assumed I should always position to increase vision, but this now appears incorrect. You ssem to suggest that I should only position for vision if I can see that it is safe to do so, but then I think if I can see far enough to know I can position out safely, then I don't need to!

Many thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards
Sally

[vonhosen]

Dear Mr Vonhosen and PD

As a new IAM member, I am still developing my thinking, never mind my drving. Bearing that in mind, could you please help.

Assuming I am in a 30mph zone. The road has a relatively tight bend to the left. The walls are such that they preclude seeing around the bend, and no vision was possible on the approach. I always thought I should be positioned towards the crown (without the right hand side of the car going over the line of course) to get as much early vision as possible. However, on reading your posts, it seems I should be either in the centre of the lane, or even tucked in to the left, to avoide the possibility of coming into adverse contact with an unseen hazard i.e. a solo going fast, etc.

So should I position towards the crown, or towards the side. Does this apply in a 40mph zone. I appreciate you cannot give exact answers, but guidance would be appreciated. I've always assumed I should always position to increase vision, but this now appears incorrect. You ssem to suggest that I should only position for vision if I can see that it is safe to do so, but then I think if I can see far enough to know I can position out safely, then I don't need to!

Many thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards
Sally

There are many factors you will have to consider, not least road width, the presence of parked vehicles &/or junctions etc.

Generally in the absence of any other hazards, in narrower roads don't position as much towards the crown as you would for wider roads.

Before positioning for maximum vision, your first consideration for positioning must be safety. The order is

Safety
Information
Reduce forces acting on vehicle (minimise steering inputs)

[rlmr]

So should I position towards the crown, or towards the side. Does this apply in a 40mph zone. I appreciate you cannot give exact answers, but guidance would be appreciated. I've always assumed I should always position to increase vision, but this now appears incorrect. You seem to suggest that I should only position for vision if I can see that it is safe to do so, but then I think if I can see far enough to know I can position out safely, then I don't need to!

Hi Sally,

This forum contains some excellent information which complements any Advanced Driving instruction etc.

This thread has been interesting to follow but it should come with a health warning... Much of the discussion has related to police driving where, during training and in live situations, the police drivers are exempt from speed limits - though they are never exempt from safety issues.

I have declined to make any significant input to this thread as I have had a niggle at the back of my mind that some of the content should have been kept to a restricted audience so as not to cause any confusion.

Suffice it to say that as a member of the public working towards any Advanced Driving standard, you are basically correct in endeavouring to position your vehicle so that you can obtain the best view so long as this does not compromise your safety or the safety of others.

All the best with your driving.

Rennie

[Prelude]

Gotta agree with what the experts say here on deciding about positioning to the crown of the road. There is a time and place and if you are not fully trained, then it could be dangerous at high speeds. The reason I say this is that I was 'practicing' these positions on some roads up in Scotland, but I was also 'demonstrating' this to my passenger at the time ( who is well aware of my driving history....IAM pass and recent lessons in Roadcraft). I could say i was passing on 'tips' eg, tryes and tarmac, avoiding breaking on bends, etc. etc. But I realised afterwards that it wasn't quite proper of me to advocate about high speed positioning, and after all I was still taking lessons. Anyway to cut a long story short, I've advised my 'passenger' NOT to take my 'high-speed positioning' demos into consideration while driving out and about, and I'm glad I did so as I'm not a tutor and at that time I was just half-way through my Roada lessons....and still learning! Safety will always be paramount throughout!