A wrong/dangerous sense of politeness!?

[SteveH]

Hello Forum,

Would like to throw a question to you readers:

I keep observing a particular behaviour of many motorists.
Scenario: city traffic, main road, traffic is dense but moving with occasional gaps due to traffic lights, zebra crossings etc.

Someone wants to cross the road as a prdestrian (away from an official crossing) or get onto the main road from a side road. Many people just stop to let the person cross or get in, holding up all traffic behind regardsless despite the fact that there will be a gap at some point anyway.
I can observe the same on motorways: people slow down in the middle/outise lane to let someone in who wants to overtake a slower vehicle- again causing a queue.

Why do poeple do this? It's uncommon in France, Belgium, Germany, Holland etc.

Personally I think it's just more straight forward and clearer is one just sticks to the rules- and it causes less queues or 'cluster traffic', keeps the traffic flowing.
Not doing this would also reduce the chance of misunderstandings (unexpected over- or undertakingtaking), so would be safer. It can really upset me if it causes queues and delays.

What's the reason for this behaviour?

Steph

[gregDT]

Courtesy I guess. However it needs to be done such that it doesn't cause a problem for other road users or worse is actually dangerous. If done inappropriately it's just another example of people not looking at the road properly and not really thinking through their actions

While I take your point I would also suggest that far to many drivers never even consider being courteous to other road users. They chase down a gap in the traffic for the specific purpose of stopping another road user entering from a side road or overtaking another driver on a multi carriageway road. I would suggest that selfish driving is far more prevalent that misplaced courteous driving in the UK.

[GJD]

I can observe the same on motorways: people slow down in the middle/outise lane to let someone in who wants to overtake a slower vehicle.

I'm sure I observe that sometimes too. Although I think rather more commonly I observe people changing lanes without doing anything as polite as seeking or waiting for cooperation from the driver outside and behind.

Why do poeple do this?

Just trying to be helpful I expect. I agree that sometimes it's not necessary. I think it depends on the traffic level. There's no need to slow to let someone out in front of you if there's a perfectly good gap a couple of cars further back that the vehicle on the inside can move into in a moment. On the other hand, in heavier traffic, when there's no gap coming for as far as I can see behind me, I'm very grateful to the people who slow to let me out. I'd be stuck without them unless I took to barging my way in regardless.

[gannet]

in city traffic often the cars aren't moving or are moving slowly so leaving a gap at a junction is not a problem and doesn't cause longer queues - do be careful of passing cyclists (on either nearside or offside) though

[waremark]

Why do poeple do this?

Just trying to be helpful I expect. I agree that sometimes it's not necessary. I think it depends on the traffic level. There's no need to slow to let someone out in front of you if there's a perfectly good gap a couple of cars further back that the vehicle on the inside can move into in a moment. On the other hand, in heavier traffic, when there's no gap coming for as far as I can see behind me, I'm very grateful to the people who slow to let me out. I'd be stuck without them unless I took to barging my way in regardless.

Plus 1

[Ancient]

Just trying to be helpful I expect. I agree that sometimes it's not necessary. I think it depends on the traffic level. There's no need to slow to let someone out in front of you if there's a perfectly good gap a couple of cars further back that the vehicle on the inside can move into in a moment. On the other hand, in heavier traffic, when there's no gap coming for as far as I can see behind me, I'm very grateful to the people who slow to let me out. I'd be stuck without them unless I took to barging my way in regardless.

Quite. In dense traffic (as per the OP) allowing other road users to cross or join does not significantly hold up progress but rather it eases flow; it is neither dangerous nor mistaken. In such circumstances I often aim to let one car out of a side road by opening a suitable gap in front of me. If I can see that I will be held up ahead, I see no reason not to stop to allow a flow of crossing traffic (or oncoming to overtake a parked lorry for example).
Contrary to the OP, I frequently see issues caused by those who believe in pushing ahead despite there being no hope of progress (slow moving / stationary traffic or red signals ahead) and blocking cross-flow. This can easily result in gridlock - nobody moving because no-one will cede priority. This is something to be avoided, which is best done by safely being polite to those trying to enter / cross the main stream.

[YorkshireJumbo]

Unless the congestion suddenly clears immediately after the event, courtesy means that you and those behind you might arrive a fraction later - the time it takes to cover a car length - less if the car later move onto a different road. Letting people cross usually adds no time at all to the journey.

Too many people drive on busy roads like they want get to the back of the next queue more quickly...

[TripleS]

Well said, A and YJ.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Astraist]

Indeed. When traffic is merging from a side road or other path onto congested traffic, letting them through is likely to cause less conflict than not letting them through which will make them merge more aggresivelly and disturb the flow of traffic. If you let traffic enter the road smoothyl, they won't force their way through either.

The best way to do this is to let one car from the other road or lane merge in front of each car in your carrigeway. The drivers on the other side should also strive to merge in this kind of "zipper" fashion. While it is true that other drivers might not uphold this - even a relatively small number of drivers that will do this can really help the traffic flow.

Even if other drivers try to push their way through - letting one or two more drivers in front of you still does not hold up the traffic and allows it to flow. On the other hand, many drivers actually hesitate to enter the gap even when you intend to let them in...

One situation I can think of when politeness does compromise safety is when you yield to pedestrians (which are still on the curb) in traffic. This kind of politeness can lead to another driver making a dangerous and illegal overtake and hitting the pedestrian or shounting your behind.

[Horse]

Wrong & dangerous?

An alternate view:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2562&p=48978

[PeterE]

I once saw a driver stop, in light traffic, to let some pedestrians across a signalised pedestrian crossing where the lights were against them. Not surprisingly, they started to cross and were then nearly knocked over by a car coming the other way that didn't stop. Now that is a prime example of misplaced courtesy

[fungus]

I once saw a driver stop, in light traffic, to let some pedestrians across a signalised pedestrian crossing where the lights were against them. Not surprisingly, they started to cross and were then nearly knocked over by a car coming the other way that didn't stop. Now that is a prime example of misplaced courtesy

I saw exactly the same thing where a woman stopped at a green light to wave another woman with a push chair across when the pedestrian light was against her.

[MGF]

There are natural breaks in traffic flow which non-priority traffic can use, especially with the co-operation of the priority traffic. Unfortunately these natural breaks are often closed by traffic accelerating to the back of a queue (including by breaking the speed limit) or stopping across junctions. On the other hand there are drivers that create unnatural breaks in the traffic flow which has a similar adverse effect but on the priority traffic.

I think the latter conduct is what the OP is referring to.

[GJD]

There are natural breaks in traffic flow which non-priority traffic can use, especially with the co-operation of the priority traffic. Unfortunately these natural breaks are often closed by traffic accelerating to the back of a queue (including by breaking the speed limit) or stopping across junctions. On the other hand there are drivers that create unnatural breaks in the traffic flow which has a similar adverse effect but on the priority traffic.

I think the latter conduct is what the OP is referring to.

In terms of the adverse effect on the priority traffic, is there a difference between someone in the priority traffic cooperating to allow in a vehicle from the non-priority traffic, and someone in the priority traffic creating an unnatural break?

I can clearly picture the concept of someone in the priority flow creating an unnatural break, but I'm not quite so clear on what a natural break is if it requires the cooperation of the priority traffic. If the implication is that without the cooperation there is no break, then I'm not sure how clearly defined the distinction between unnatural and natural breaks might be. I suspect there's a grey area in between.

[MGF]

There are natural breaks in traffic flow which non-priority traffic can use, especially with the co-operation of the priority traffic. Unfortunately these natural breaks are often closed by traffic accelerating to the back of a queue (including by breaking the speed limit) or stopping across junctions. On the other hand there are drivers that create unnatural breaks in the traffic flow which has a similar adverse effect but on the priority traffic.

I think the latter conduct is what the OP is referring to.

In terms of the adverse effect on the priority traffic, is there a difference between someone in the priority traffic cooperating to allow in a vehicle from the non-priority traffic, and someone in the priority traffic creating an unnatural break?

Co-operation requires queuing before and after a junction, not across it; driving within speed limits; and even reducing speed a little within the limit to create a sufficiently large gap.

Bringing free-flowing traffic behind you to a halt to enable traffic to join or cross is inconsiderate unless necessary for safety reasons.