Advanced Driving in automatic

[waremark]

As Dave knows, he would be marked down for not having proper control of the steering if he steered like that on most driving tests. The main concern would be about not being ready to deal with any need for unexpected inputs.

Dave, even though it works I find it hard to believe that you are arguing that this is the best way of steering round a RB. Are you?

I would like to know what the 'anything goes' VH would make of this method of steering, and if he did not like it how he would deal with it. VH, are you here?

[YorkshireJumbo]

I have a 6-year-old Honda with a manually-overideable 5-speed auto. This allows me to change up or down by moving the gear lever. Despite the extra control this gives me in theory, in practice it is a bit of a blunt instrument. Changes up can be controlled not to give too sharp a jolt, but manual downchanges are extremely difficult to modulate.Getting the right throttle opening not to give a jerk when changing is a skill that has so far eluded me, despite 90,000 miles of trying! What I do use the manual side for is to "lock" the car in gear when approaching corners so that the acceleration out does not cause a jerky downchange.

Would you say the last part is making sufficient use of the 'box? I know it is an old system, but it is certainly not easy to use!

[TripleS]

As Dave knows, he would be marked down for not having proper control of the steering if he steered like that on most driving tests. The main concern would be about not being ready to deal with any need for unexpected inputs.

Dave, even though it works I find it hard to believe that you are arguing that this is the best way of steering round a RB. Are you?

I would like to know what the 'anything goes' VH would make of this method of steering, and if he did not like it how he would deal with it. VH, are you here?

On my one and only driving test (19 September 1957) I was not capable of negotiating a roundabout in that manner. Since then I like to think I have become more versatile in what I can do without jeopardising safety. As for "being ready to deal with any need for unexpected inputs", can we not assess situations and recognise instances where there is no risk of unwelcome events arising to catch us out?

No, Mark, I am not arguing that what I described is the best way of steering round a RB, but I am saying that in my opinion there are circumstances in which it can be a perfectly safe and satisfactory way of doing it. A friend of mine....yes, I do have one....who happens to be a member of a club for very advanced drivers, once said to me that what matters is knowing when you can break "the rules."

BTW, I don't think Von is in the "anything goes" camp, but he does seem to have a pleasingly relaxed attitude to how we get the right results.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[waremark]

If you substitute 'reasonably safe' for 'perfectly safe' I would agree with all that. But if other methods of steering are 'better', why not use those instead?

By the way, I certainly don't pretend that I always drive the best, let alone the safest, way that I can.

[TripleS]

If you substitute 'reasonably safe' for 'perfectly safe' I would agree with all that. But if other methods of steering are 'better', why not use those instead?

Perhaps my view of this differs from yours, but I think what we have here is the difference between those who say, for example, that driving requires 100% concentration at all times ( which is not achieavable anyhow!), and the likes of me who says we need sufficient concentration (or whatever) to ensure that a very high degree of safety is maintained.

I don't feel that the so-called better ways of steering actually yield such an improvement in safety that they justify sacrificing the freedom to use other methods.

There probably isn't a hard and fast right answer to many of these aspects of driving; they mostly involve judgements: e.g. "do I really need to confine myself to this particular method for the sake of an insignificant increase in safety (which is already at a very high level) when I could allow myself greater flexibility and freedom at little or no cost. As regular readers of my waffling may be aware, I set great store by freedom, until it becomes clear that the cost is likely to be unreasonably high......and that is, again, a matter of judgement!

BTW, I too would be interested to see what Von makes of this, but I get the impression he has drifted away from us here: and I do wonder if it is because we sometimes agonise too much over things that really do not merit it......but again I might be wrong. Anyhow I hope he will reappear here, and not spend too much of his time dealing with loutish behaviour on PH.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

Do you suppose we sometimes exaggerate the importance of having two hands on the steering wheel?

Not just relating to this point, but yesterday I was driven by a relatively inexperienced driver whose confidence has seemed to have come on in leaps and bounds since they gained a full licence. I was treated to a demonstration of being too prepared to change up a gear and not having time to change down, resulting in uncomfortable acceleration shaking the car, to trying to change gear while trying to turn the steering wheel resulting in rather haphazard cornering, to inattention resulting in accelerating towards the back of cars that were already braking, to reactive late braking resulting in initial over-braking followed by coming off the brakes followed by some extra braking, to a lack of early observation when trying to join a motorway, to repeatedly being in the wrong gear for the required acceleration, to repeatedly following too close without any apparent appreciation of the potential danger, to needing to brake while trying to follow another vehicle on a free-flowing motorway, and so on.

Dave, some of your comments are from the point of view of someone who has many many years of driving experience. You have learned how to manage the car to get results that you and your passengers are happy with, but some of the 'rules', guidelines if you like, are helpful to people that haven't yet developed that experience and in the meantime will help to keep them out of trouble.

[waremark]

Gareth, how did you go about giving input to this driver?

[Gareth]

how did you go about giving input to this driver?

We were on a specific trip so I tried to be light-hearted while at the same time only making comments that headed off particular risks. I wasn't very good at this.

[TripleS]

Dave, some of your comments are from the point of view of someone who has many many years of driving experience. You have learned how to manage the car to get results that you and your passengers are happy with, but some of the 'rules', guidelines if you like, are helpful to people that haven't yet developed that experience and in the meantime will help to keep them out of trouble.

Yes, I accept all of that.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

how did you go about giving input to this driver?

We were on a specific trip so I tried to be light-hearted while at the same time only making comments that headed off particular risks. I wasn't very good at this.

Is the driver in question truly interested in driving, and looking to improve, in which case one would expect to find it easier to discuss things and offer suggestions; or is simply that he's gained more confidence since passing his test and now reckons he's fully proficient? I guess it is the latter.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

Is the driver in question truly interested in driving, and looking to improve

Probably not in both cases.

is simply that he's gained more confidence since passing his test and now reckons he's fully proficient? I guess it is the latter.

Probably, although I have hopes this will change in time.

[fungus]

Is the driver in question truly interested in driving, and looking to improve

Probably not in both cases.

is simply that he's gained more confidence since passing his test and now reckons he's fully proficient? I guess it is the latter.

Probably, although I have hopes this will change in time.

You have just about summed up the situation with this driver, as it would be in a lot of new young drivers whose confidence is growing.