Driving smoothly.

[jcochrane]

Been out for a drive this morning. Alsolutely piss poor. The harder I try the worse I bloody get.

I can not come off the accelerator with invoking the bounce power of about a dozen bloody kangaroos.

If your moving very slowly and your foot is only moving almost imperceptibly it may help to take a higher gear. (Small movements of the throttle will have less effect, if you see what I mean, can help as well for bend work when more precision is sought for fine balance.)

[7db]

The kangaroo is pilot induced oscillation. The car can't do it without your help: it's only possible if you've left your foot on the accelerator in some way to complete the feedback loop. Try coming off entirely, removing your foot entirely (cover brake) and letting the engine management system / idle do the work.

[kardiokate]

But it isn't. It's kangarooing after I have completely removed my foot from the pedal. No matter how gently I do it. I'm thinking there actually is a fault as its pronounced in this warm weather.

[7db]

Hmm. Odd.
Try accelerating harder.

[jcochrane]

But it isn't. It's kangarooing after I have completely removed my foot from the pedal. No matter how gently I do it. I'm thinking there actually is a fault as its pronounced in this warm weather.

For what it's worth the lift off jolt that I get in my car is improved by using the higher rated fuel in the tank.

[TripleS]

But it isn't. It's kangarooing after I have completely removed my foot from the pedal. No matter how gently I do it. I'm thinking there actually is a fault as its pronounced in this warm weather.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think I recognise the problem you're having, and it (or something very similar) has been affecting my wife's car for a while. This is an 02 registered Peugeot 206 with a 1.6 litre petrol engine. The car was bought by us in April 2010, and I'm pretty sure the problem was not there initially.

What seems to happen is that at engine speeds somewhere in the range 1200-1500 rpm there is a snatchiness in the transmission, and I get the impression that it happens even on a closed throttle. We can be driving along at about 20 mph in 3rd gear, and even though we may not be touching the throttle pedal at all, it feels as if we're lightly tapping the pedal, on and off it quite rapidly, but only opening the throttle a tiny amount.

My feeling is that a fault has developed within the engine management system, but so far we have not managed to get it cured. It sure is irritating though.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[kardiokate]

But it isn't. It's kangarooing after I have completely removed my foot from the pedal. No matter how gently I do it. I'm thinking there actually is a fault as its pronounced in this warm weather.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think I recognise the problem you're having, and it (or something very similar) has been affecting my wife's car for a while. This is an 02 registered Peugeot 206 with a 1.6 litre petrol engine. The car was bought by us in April 2010, and I'm pretty sure the problem was not there initially.

What seems to happen is that at engine speeds somewhere in the range 1200-1500 rpm there is a snatchiness in the transmission, and I get the impression that it happens even on a closed throttle. We can be driving along at about 20 mph in 3rd gear, and even though we may not be touching the throttle pedal at all, it feels as if we're lightly tapping the pedal, on and off it quite rapidly, but only opening the throttle a tiny amount.

My feeling is that a fault has developed within the engine management system, but so far we have not managed to get it cured. It sure is irritating though.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Yes, that sounds similar, although it happens as I take my foot off the accelerator, and when I re apply the accelerator. I've been advised to have the throttle body off, clean it out, replace the TPS, make sure the accelerator cable assembly is properly lubricated & possibly change the spark plugs.

I'll get all these bits done next week and see if there's any improvement

[TripleS]

But it isn't. It's kangarooing after I have completely removed my foot from the pedal. No matter how gently I do it. I'm thinking there actually is a fault as its pronounced in this warm weather.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think I recognise the problem you're having, and it (or something very similar) has been affecting my wife's car for a while. This is an 02 registered Peugeot 206 with a 1.6 litre petrol engine. The car was bought by us in April 2010, and I'm pretty sure the problem was not there initially.

What seems to happen is that at engine speeds somewhere in the range 1200-1500 rpm there is a snatchiness in the transmission, and I get the impression that it happens even on a closed throttle. We can be driving along at about 20 mph in 3rd gear, and even though we may not be touching the throttle pedal at all, it feels as if we're lightly tapping the pedal, on and off it quite rapidly, but only opening the throttle a tiny amount.

My feeling is that a fault has developed within the engine management system, but so far we have not managed to get it cured. It sure is irritating though.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Yes, that sounds similar, although it happens as I take my foot off the accelerator, and when I re apply the accelerator. I've been advised to have the throttle body off, clean it out, replace the TPS, make sure the accelerator cable assembly is properly lubricated & possibly change the spark plugs.

I'll get all these bits done next week and see if there's any improvement

Ah, that does sound slightly different from the problem we're having. Your problem is just as you're coming off the throttle, or gently going back on - and this is a time when a bit of snatchiness might be expected to arise, especially if all is not quite what it should be in terms of transmission backlash or clearance between gear components. It is just at that sensitive time when the engine is hovering between applying a tiny amount of driving torque, and being on the over-run, i.e. applying a tiny amount of engine braking.

Our 206 seems to snatch even when we have already settled into a closed throttle situation.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Garrison]

I'm thinking the transition issue you come across from a different angle.

Assuming there is nothing wrong with your driving, it could be due to something mechanically tired on your car, resulting in your transition being particularly jerky.

On my MR2, there is a mechanical throttle cable as well as an electronic throttle position switch/sensor. Now, I know there was about a 3mm slack on the cable so the switch notify the engine to increase fuel before the throttle actually opens (and vice versa). I can feel the car surges on first touch of throttle but before the throttle actually opens. Similar, I can feel the car suddenly slows down AFTER I have closed the throttle. From memory, if your Rover 45 is the K-Series engine, it has a similar set up as my MR2.

In addition, the engine rubber mounts and the gearbox rubber mounts on my car were both aged/perished and shrank/cracked. This resulted in extra slacks on coming on and off power.

Now, I have learned the characteristics of my car so I can manage the transitions using a combination of brake and clutch control. However, I have since performed the following remedies.

Remedies:
1) I winded in the throttle cable to take up the slack and is now in-line with the throttle position switch; cost was zero.
2) All of the slack rubber mounts were replaced - costs c.£100.

It is now much smoother and predicable to control the power on/off transition.

Having not driven with you and without driving your car, it will be hard to pin-point whether it is anything mechanical or driving related.

However, given the youngest 45 would be over 8 years old now, and that throttle cables and rubber mounts wear are not mileage but age/usage related, I would start with these mechanical parts.

Hope you get it sorted out.

[WS]

Hi Kate

Perhaps it is worth trying to change the position of your right foot on the accelerator. Try to move your heel a little bit further away so that you are pressing the pedal not with your toes but more or less at 3/4 of the length of your foot. Your control over the gas pedal should then become more precise as this part of the foot is less flexible than the toes. This should translate into more stable, smoother acceleration.

The additional benefit of such foot positioning is visible on uneven surfaces. Bumps or potholes always make your foot jump a little, which is then transferred onto the accelerator and eventually makes the drive more jerky. If the point on your foot where it is touching the accelerator pedal is in 3/4 of the foot's length and not in, say, 4/5 (toes), then the amplitude of the movements of this point on uneven surface will be smaller, which translates into a smoother drive.

Also worth experimenting with various shoes, in my opinion - good shoes can make a big difference.

Both things have worked well for me.

[sussex2]

Concentration on the 'system' but allowing yourself lapses and ultimately anticipation will get you a smooth drive, about 70 percent of the time, which is all you are probably ever going to achieve in reality.
After forty years of driving to the 'system' I rarely get much better than that and would challenge anyone to achieve better
If you drive to and practice the 'system' you are already streets ahead of 90 percent of others on the road - however never expect anyone (even you nearest and dearest) to appreciate it as it's a pretty much lone pursuit.

[brianhaddon]

....you a smooth drive, about 70 percent of the time, which is all you are probably ever going to achieve in reality.
After forty years of driving to the 'system' I rarely get much better than that and would challenge anyone to achieve better

Hmmmm - there is smooth and then there is smoooooottthhhh - I know a few drivers who can produce systematic, smo(oooo)oth, swift drives for more than 70 percent of the time.

....If you drive to and practice the 'system' you are already streets ahead of 90 percent of others on the road - however never expect anyone (even you nearest and dearest) to appreciate it as it's a pretty much lone pursuit.

Can't argue with that

Regards
Brian Haddon

[sussex2]

There's a simple answer to driving smoothly and that is:
Anticipation (never reaction) anticipation and in case you need reminding, anticipation.
If you do this, and do it well, it will serve you about 70 percent of the time; the rest is human frailty.

[Astraist]

Hi Kate

Perhaps it is worth trying to change the position of your right foot on the accelerator. Try to move your heel a little bit further away so that you are pressing the pedal not with your toes but more or less at 3/4 of the length of your foot. Your control over the gas pedal should then become more precise as this part of the foot is less flexible than the toes. This should translate into more stable, smoother acceleration.

The additional benefit of such foot positioning is visible on uneven surfaces. Bumps or potholes always make your foot jump a little, which is then transferred onto the accelerator and eventually makes the drive more jerky.

Also worth experimenting with various shoes, in my opinion - good shoes can make a big difference.

Yes, the pedals should be pressed with the ball of the foot (other than the clutch which is pushed with the entire foot) but preferably the pressure should be applied on the lower portion of the gas pedal. This increases the accuracy and smoothness by requiring a longer motion of the limb to press the pedal so far.

Also, finer muscles in the ankle are at work during such a motion, when compared to pushing with the whole foot. The point on uneven surfaces is also important. This method can be achieved by pivoting over the heel when it's placed roughly in front of the brake pedal, so the right foot is bent aside to push the gas pedal.

[brianhaddon]

There's a simple answer to driving smoothly and that is:
Anticipation (never reaction) anticipation and in case you need reminding, anticipation.
If you do this, and do it well, it will serve you about 70 percent of the time; the rest is human frailty.

Sorry to keep stringing this out but I am curious. Are you saying that a completely smooth drive is only down to the driver for about 70% of it and the remaining 30% due to other factors? I don't really understand the human frailty bit. Or are you saying you can only drive smoothly for 70% of the time anyway and the rest is hit and miss? There is a difference as I see it.
Regards
Brian Haddon.