'Leapfrogging' overtaking manoeuvres

[Dispossessed]

Hello,

Firstly, I'm not an advanced driver - to be honest, with the miles I do each year (6k) I'm probably still pretty inexperienced on the roads. But of course I'm willing to learn about how to become a better driver.

OK - so here's the scenario. I'm on a SCW road (perfectly safe conditions to drive at the NSL) and I come up to the back of 5-6 cars. They are travelling, say 50mph, and nobody is willing to overtake the slowest moving car at the front. For the sake of argument lets say that each driver is keeping a decent sized (2 second) gap between it and the car in front (I recognise that many people on the roads do not leave as big a gap, however).

If I was wanting to make more progress along the stretch of road I would have to pass these cars. While I can pass maybe 1, 2 at a time, I can't see far enough ahead or have enough power to pass all the cars at once, and so would have to do some 'leapfrogging' overtaking to get past them. This isn't something I do very often, but would you all say this is a perfectly acceptable manoeuvre?

I do have a number of questions though about doing this kind of manoeuvre.
1) Is it seen as bad manners to cut in into somebody's braking distance? I've often heard that on the roads we should not either cause others to 'swerve, swear or slow down' - if I pulled into someone's braking distance then they would have to at least ease off the accelerator.

2) There is the possibility of me 'tailgaiting' the car I've pulled in behind, even just for a few seconds before I reestablish a safe braking gap. Is this acceptable if only for a short time?

3) If I had just make this manouevre, slotting in behind a car (say the car is 1 second ahead of me, the car behind is one second behind me) and the car in front brakes hard (while I would be looking out for potential hazards, people may react to something like wildlife suddenly coming out into the the road). I am able to brake in time to prevent hitting the car in front, but the car in front runs into the back of me - given that I had just cut into their braking gap that I would be 100% to blame?

4) Is this kind of manouevre acceptable for SCW roads with other speed limits (e.g. 30 zones) if the cars in front are doing less than the speed limit?

Like I said I rarely, if ever do this kind of manouevre but was wondering if some of the more experienced drivers on here ever do it?

[ROG]

Is the gain worth the risk ? - that is a major consideration

Only once in my driving can i remember a time when it was and that was on a long journey to the coast through lincolnshire ..... I had 4 cars doing 15+ under the limit for the most part

[fungus]

Like ROG, IIRC it's something I've only done on one or two occasions, and to be honest the overtake would have to be on vehicles travelling at speeds of at least 15-20 mph below the posted limit with good gaps that I didn't have to brake into. Given that most drivers are travelling very near the speed limit and overtaking is seen by many as anti social I would be very careful doing this nowadays as it could easily be interpreted by the politically correct brigade as aggressive.

[Standard Dave]

It is difficult to judge and no hard and fast rule can be applied. this kind of overtaking is perfectly legal and acceptable on the high speed section of Police and Ambulance driving courses.

The issue is that those in the "queue" might see you attempt the overtake and decide the move is on and pull out in front of you to also exicute the overtake.
Quite a few people will try to close up gaps and others will flash etc believing they are teaching you a lesson.

Sadly other drivers very rarely let you get on with your drive and will react agressively. Others will having followed like a sheep decide to come round after you and then follow you as if they are incapable of deciding the safe speed for a section of road and latch on to the back of the vehicle in front of them.

[MrToad]

50mph is a bit marginal for a worthwhile legal pass, and 2 second landing space is also a bit marginal. As you've pointed out, that gap will have to be extended to 4 seconds when you're in it, and this carries the risk of being thought of as having 'pushed in'.

If you're not going to be there long though, you might decide it's worth it. Inconvenience to the person you've overtaken can be minimised by putting yourself to the front of the gap and then gradually extending it, and again you're aware that while doing this you'll be in a vulnerable position if the car in front stops suddenly. I can't answer your question about liability, but it's a situation that you want to work to improve as soon as possible.

As for the wider question of working your way along a queue of less ambitious motorists, yes - it's entirely possible and very satisfying to get right. Remember to keep an eye on others in the queue - if you make it look too easy they might get ideas about doing it too.


Edited to add: Question 4: No, probably not. An opportunity for a worthwhile single overtake in a 30 limit is a rare thing, and stitching your way along a line of traffic is very unlikely to be appropriate. At least in an NSL area you can disappear off into the distance once the deed is done.

[Dispossessed]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

[Astraist]

I, for one, find that "tailgating" at a gap of one second, even temporarily, is hazardous. Assuming that with such a margin, you are able to brake short of the car ahead as it brakes is quite optimistic, to say the least. A person's reaction time in an actual scenario, is about one second or more.

[jcochrane]

35/40 years ago I was trained to take these overtakes, as was managing other traffic around but, and it is a big but, attitudes are very different today. A 2 second gaping gives little leeway and I think that in any overtake the question of whether progress can be made after the overtake should be part of the decision process. Occasionally and only very very occasionally there is enough forward vision and with precise timing an overtake may be possible sliding between two cars to allow an on comer to pass before moving out again to take the second car. On todays roads to take more than two cars this way would be very rare indeed. However In my view It requires an exceedingly high level of skill and precision rarely found in a driver and not something I would want to recommend to anyone.

Yesterday I had a situation of a long queue of traffic behind a heavy. The gaping varied and in some cases less than 2 seconds. I could easily have passed the vehicle immediately in front of me but have not got much further. My decision was to stay in the queue.

[martine]

I, for one, find that "tailgating" at a gap of one second, even temporarily, is hazardous. Assuming that with such a margin, you are able to brake short of the car ahead as it brakes is quite optimistic, to say the least. A person's reaction time in an actual scenario, is about one second or more.

I think many people would consider a 1 second gap too short to be safe but it's something that might be done to improve the chance of an overtake...and it would only be held for a short time before dropping back to a more normal 2 second+ 'following' position.

Wouldn't it be nice if those in a queue that aren't looking for an overtake actually opened up a sizeable gap to allow others to make progress? Ah well...I can dream.

[Standard Dave]

Wouldn't it be nice if those in a queue that aren't looking for an overtake actually opened up a sizeable gap to allow others to make progress? Ah well...I can dream.

This is a dream shared by others, if only they would leave a gap and let us get on with it rather than driving closer that a tactical convoy using axle lamps.

[Dispossessed]

Wouldn't it be nice if those in a queue that aren't looking for an overtake actually opened up a sizeable gap to allow others to make progress? Ah well...I can dream.

I try and do that if I'm in traffic and travelling at or near the speed limit and not in a rush to get anywhere. I maybe pull the car very slightly to the left hand side of the road just for a few seconds as if to tell them that I acknowledge they're behind, and also increase my gap very slightly to the car in front. Its courtesy really - they obviously have to be somewhere quickly, and its hardly inconveniencing me.

[apple tango]

"Don't take off without somewhere to land"

Before you start the overtake you should know where you are going to get back in. If this involves a gap between other vehicles then you should make sure the gap is one you can comfortably slot into without disrupting the flow. If you cause following vehicles to have to brake to accommodate you then you did it wrong - that will cause annoyance / road rage and may even be considered careless driving.

You should be aiming to slot gently back into the gap and I think you should do this without needing to brake, just easing off the throttle, and so not affecting the flow of people behind. Don't cut back in too soon.

On that basis I don't see how a 2 second gap will ever be enough.

In reality I would not attempt this sort of overtake - if I could not overtake the lot in one go then I would not start it (although 50mph on a 60mph road makes that unlikely). I would not do it if it relied on co-operation and good discipline from others.

The reason for my opinion is that overtaking seems to be out of favour with the general public. It's not unheard of for people to close up gaps, just because they don't think you should be doing it and are making a "statement". I would say this is more likely if they consider it aggressive and lots of smaller hopping overtakes could get this reaction.

Of course it's a matter of opinion - if there were 3 cars, a large gap, another 2 cars then I might consider overtaking the three, then later on the other two, but I would have to have a large gap to be comfortable to do this - one that they couldn't close up easily. In that sense it would be two sets of slow traffic rather than one, and that distinction is a matter of judgement.

[7db]

I quite often find that opportunites arise with large vehicles and a few cars buried behind them. Good early positioning allows you to cruise gently past everyone (watch them pull out and follow you).

Completely agree that you need to know where you can land (even if you just pause offside from there and take a view about going further) before committing. Vision is everything.

If you do need to do some braking then it's courteous to do it offside before slotting in, rather than jamming them on once you've crow-barred your way back in.

[jcochrane]

Do agree with your last paragraph 7db. Matching your speed to the moving gap and then slotting in makes it possible and safer to move into a narrower gap than moving in and then braking.

[Ancient]

"Don't take off without somewhere to land"
[and other sensible stuff]

What apple Tango said...