Hands-free Mobile Whilst Driving

[jameslb101]

I'd argue that going 1mph over a number on a stick is unlikely to decrease your concentration (in fact if by some margin quite the opposite, allegedly), whereas using a phone while driving can't do anything but.

Anyway, we don't want this getting into another speed discussion so let's get back on track.

"I'm on the A40, it's dry and clear, good visibility with light traffic..... I'll probably be about an hour and a half unless the traffic worsens. There appears to be a queue ahead, better make that two hours"

"We're on an A road, dry, clear, traffic flowing, red car coming up behind is moving to outside lane. Looks like a queue ahead, ease off the throttle to reduce closing speed; this might slow the journey somewhat."

One said on a mobile 'phone and the other to an (imaginary?) companion. Which is decreasing the driver's concentration?

The first one.

A couple of points:

-When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

-Talking on the phone is nothing like doing a commentary, at least not a kind of commentary I'm familiar with!

[Silk]

I'm more than a little concerned about the demonisation of mobile phones, especially from people who are more than happy to routinely exceed the speed limit (a little hypocritical when you consider that using a hands-free phone whilst driving remains legal)

Being safe, and being legal, are two totally different things.

Indeed they are, but if two things are considered to be safe and one is illegal...

[Silk]

For some people, it's acceptable to use "judgement" when it comes to exceeding the speed limit, but not when it comes to using a hands-free mobile phone whilst driving? That seems a bit odd, don't you think?

For some people, it's acceptable to use "judgement" when it comes to using a hands-free mobile phone whilst driving, but not when exceeding the speed limits? That seems a bit odd, don't you think?

Right back at ya

I'd argue that going 1mph over a number on a stick is unlikely to decrease your concentration (in fact if by some margin quite the opposite, allegedly), whereas using a phone while driving can't do anything but.

Anyway, we don't want this getting into another speed discussion so let's get back on track.

No "righ back at ya" at all. I don't condemn anyone for using judgment when it comes to breaking speed limits. Obviously I'm not going to encourage or condone it on a public forum as it's illegal. Hands-free mobile phone use whislt driving is not.

If you were to start a discussion on speed, it would be a very short discussion as you would no doubt find me in agreement.

[Silk]

I'd argue that going 1mph over a number on a stick is unlikely to decrease your concentration (in fact if by some margin quite the opposite, allegedly), whereas using a phone while driving can't do anything but.

Anyway, we don't want this getting into another speed discussion so let's get back on track.

"I'm on the A40, it's dry and clear, good visibility with light traffic..... I'll probably be about an hour and a half unless the traffic worsens. There appears to be a queue ahead, better make that two hours"

"We're on an A road, dry, clear, traffic flowing, red car coming up behind is moving to outside lane. Looks like a queue ahead, ease off the throttle to reduce closing speed; this might slow the journey somewhat."

One said on a mobile 'phone and the other to an (imaginary?) companion. Which is decreasing the driver's concentration?

The first one.

A couple of points:

-When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

-Talking on the phone is nothing like doing a commentary, at least not a kind of commentary I'm familiar with!

Maybe you've had a bad experience with inferior equipment in the past; the quality of the bluetooth hands-free system in my currect car is excellent. I'm certainly not aware of any "lag". Perhaps I can demonstrate it to you on the next driving day, if you're willing to take the risk.

[Horse]

I'd argue that going 1mph over a number on a stick is unlikely to decrease your concentration (in fact if by some margin quite the opposite, allegedly), whereas using a phone while driving can't do anything but.

Anyway, we don't want this getting into another speed discussion so let's get back on track.

"I'm on the A40, it's dry and clear, good visibility with light traffic..... I'll probably be about an hour and a half unless the traffic worsens. There appears to be a queue ahead, better make that two hours"

"We're on an A road, dry, clear, traffic flowing, red car coming up behind is moving to outside lane. Looks like a queue ahead, ease off the throttle to reduce closing speed; this might slow the journey somewhat."

One said on a mobile 'phone and the other to an (imaginary?) companion. Which is decreasing the driver's concentration?

-Talking on the phone is nothing like doing a commentary, at least not a kind of commentary I'm familiar with!

And a commentary is increasing your focus of concentration on the road ahead, not removing all or part of it.

[Horse]

the quality of the bluetooth hands-free system in my currect car is excellent. I'm certainly not aware of any "lag"

Being aware of it and it being there may be two different things.

A bit like not being aware of a drop in concentration from using even hands-free phones


So come on, you go all antsy when I called you a troll, so I went to all the trouble of typing out a full response. The decent thing to do would be to go through and answer those points, wouldn't it?

Plus, I subsequently asked what evidence you would accept?

[Ancient]

I'd argue that going 1mph over a number on a stick is unlikely to decrease your concentration (in fact if by some margin quite the opposite, allegedly), whereas using a phone while driving can't do anything but.

Anyway, we don't want this getting into another speed discussion so let's get back on track.

"I'm on the A40, it's dry and clear, good visibility with light traffic..... I'll probably be about an hour and a half unless the traffic worsens. There appears to be a queue ahead, better make that two hours"

"We're on an A road, dry, clear, traffic flowing, red car coming up behind is moving to outside lane. Looks like a queue ahead, ease off the throttle to reduce closing speed; this might slow the journey somewhat."

One said on a mobile 'phone and the other to an (imaginary?) companion. Which is decreasing the driver's concentration?

The first one.

A couple of points:

-When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

-Talking on the phone is nothing like doing a commentary, at least not a kind of commentary I'm familiar with!

Why is the first one decreasing the driver's concentration? What evidence do you have of that?

[martine]

Why is the first one decreasing the driver's concentration? What evidence do you have of that?

Worth reading as it shows both sides...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safety

Also...
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/mobile_phone_report.pdf

[Slink_Pink]

Slightly side issue that annoys me, there are lots of others.

People who place big satnav displays next to the door pillar (A-Pillar). Must lose a lot of visibility, can't be good.

Really?? I always stick my sat nav there, nice and low though, as close to the bottom corner as I can reasonably get. Much rather than than smack in the middle of the screen as seems to be the most popular place.

[Gareth]

When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

Referring specifically to using handsfree systems with mobile phones: I'm very surprised at this comment; it certainly isn't my experience.

[Horse]

When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

Referring specifically to using handsfree systems with mobile phones: I'm very surprised at this comment; it certainly isn't my experience.

Don't know about the hands-free element, but from use of a normal mobile handset there always seems to be an additional delay above that of land lines.

[Silk]

When using a handsfree system there's so much "lag" and the quality is so poor that it requires exponentially more processing power to be diverted to the act of listening than, say, talking to a passenger in the car.

Referring specifically to using handsfree systems with mobile phones: I'm very surprised at this comment; it certainly isn't my experience.

It may have been the case with older, after-market handsfree systems. I wouldn't say it was lag, just a delay between the system going between microphone and speaker, meaning you had to leave deliberate gaps in order for the electronics to keep up. You also had to put up with a tinny little speaker tucked away somewhere.

Modern bluetooth factory-fit systems are better integrated and use the main sound system speakers. They're in a completely different league to most after-market solutions. I even prefer to use it when parked up.

[jameslb101]

To be fair I am talking about aftermarket systems and perhaps factory-fit systems are much better. Still, talking on a mobile in general (even when not driving) does require much more concentration than talking to a 'real person'.

[Ancient]

Why is the first one decreasing the driver's concentration? What evidence do you have of that?

Worth reading as it shows both sides...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safety

Also...
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/mobile_phone_report.pdf

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Psychology-Driv ... 0805844252
Worth reading as it spends the first chapter talking about many of the problems with such studies.
It discusses the neuro-physiology of some of the distractions, which has at least some existence beyond statistical correlation.
It surveys the research that has led to the bans on mobile phone usage. Simulated conversations typically involve 'simple' arithmetic (such as reading out two nine digit numbers to the driver, who then has to remember them and reply with the sum) and visualisation tasks (such as visualising a specific letter and answering questions on what happens when it is rotated etc).
Neither of which in any way resembles the conversations I have whilst on the 'phone, nor the examples I gave above.
In the chapter on driving distractions, there is a subsection on mobile phone use of course. The proofs of reduced concentration compare driving (or 'simulated driving' in most cases) whilst having such 'conversations' as above, and driving whilst not. This entirely lacks any real experimental control. The nearest to a 'real' control is a study quoted that is "not directly looking at mobile phone use" but used similar tests. Dr Hole doesn't say whether the experimenter was in the car, but it is implied ... The results show similar levels of distraction as the 'mobile phone use' experiments, in that drivers stopped looking around as much (their vision became fixed whilst answering questions): Obviously this level of distraction increases the chances of an RTI.

BTW: The conversation you said was obviously distracting, is the sort I often have in my head with an imaginary companion (or with myself if yo prefer the imagery). It is reviewing whether or not I will be late and therefore whether or not it is necessary to call ahead. No mobile phone is involved at that time. Either conversation could be had on a mobile phone and would be no more nor less distracting for that fact.

[MGF]

...Still, talking on a mobile in general (even when not driving) does require much more concentration than talking to a 'real person'.

That depends entirely on the nature of the conversation. I have found some conversations in the car require much more concentration than some phone calls. The nature of the conversation is far more important than the proximity of the interlocutors. Just as the circumstances of a particular speed is more important than the speed itself.

I am surprised you view speeding as simply a legal issue but mobile phone use as always a safety issue.