Raised limit points and dead ground

[7db]

I'm not sure my judgement of stopping distance in those circumstances is wholly scientific -- it's a judgement call in all cases -- of course it is.

I've tried emergency stops in my car in the dry and wet from 60 (possibly further than you'd think in the wet) and 30 (not very far at all) on a quite road, but only on the straight

My standard mental model on a limit point is whether I'd be happy to be following an HGV (with good brakes!) that closely -- since that's something which is more everyday than the dead sheep in the road. I find this works for me, but next time I get some quiet track time, I might try it out on a corner.

[rlmr]

What I don't follow is why you appear to believe that few folks on here understand that.

If everyone visiting and reading this forum has super human restraint then my concern is unfounded. However might I suggest, based on the phone calls at home to come out and reconstruct serious / fatal "accident" and my current experience of some folks interpretation of Advanced Driving, that I am right to be concerned.

Many folk visit and read these posts... not everyone either joins or contributes.

I very recently had some interesting discussions with some enthusiastic and good drivers. However when it came to the crunch there was a heavy reliance on limit point analysis to the extent many of the other "clues" were being overlooked... and at times, in the pursuit of "max progress," the "stopping in the distance seen to be clear" would have been through pure luck and not through any planning.

I do not mean to be a kill-joy, I just think that "a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing" and whilst it appears there are a good bunch of sensible and good drivers visiting this site, we need to be cautious and sometimes state the obvious. How many times have others quite rightly said that someone should get something demonstrated to them rather than just read one of the many good books on the subject

To show you how easy it is to overlook the obvious... during the police instructors course the qualified instructor (who drives as the pupil) would hang a right at speed into the nearest farm entrance or lay-bye etc., any time the trainee instructor said "right."

I spend some of my time conducting the Senior Observer (Motorcycle) tests for the IAM in Scotland. These folk generally know their stuff, but it is a concern to come across some wee bits of information which are omitted and could cause a problem if an associate were to follow blindly without thought.

So, yes I state the obvious, but I aim for the lowest common denominator... just like the roads engineers who designs double white line systems for the short sighted driver who lacks confidence and drives a Morris 1000. The Advanced Motorcyclist / Driver, with training, good views and a powerful machine, could chop a number of metres off either end of the white line system and still be safe with their overtake... except that that would be illegal and must never be condoned.

OK back off my soap box having duly apologised to all the driving Gods who frequent this site... I am a mere mortal who appreciates how easy it is not to get everything right all the time.

Rennie

[rlmr]

My standard mental model on a limit point is whether I'd be happy to be following an HGV (with good brakes!) that closely -- since that's something which is more everyday than the dead sheep in the road.

...try the A-836 from Lairg to Tongue. 80% single track, lots of bends, thousands of sheep. Great driving / riding road with some spectacular scenery Your Caterham would be great fun to drive there

R

[MiniClubmanEstate]

short sighted driver who lacks confidence and drives a Morris 1000.

I know some Advanced Morris drivers. Most classic car drivers care about their cars and will consider taking advanced driving as they want to drive their pride and joy to the best of their abilities. Interestingly I'm in a classic car club, the Caledonian Mini club where we already have quite a few advanced drivers, and I know quite a few more who want to make a comitment to improve their driving.
Please don't single out classic car drivers because they like to own an interesting and ireplacable car, we don't have a problem with you because you drive something else, we do object to being singled out though.

[rlmr]

Please don't single out classic car drivers because they like to own an interesting and ireplacable car, we don't have a problem with you because you drive something else, we do object to being singled out though.

I drive a 1977 MG Midget so know full well the limitations of my old car when set against my 170 BHP, 175 mph BMW motorcycle. So I speak from experience. The MG is my only car these days, not just a Sunday play thing.



However I still stand by my post. The double white line systems are set out to cater for the "lowest common denominator" (be that driver or vehicle or both) and the Advanced Driver with the right vehicle could shave metres off each end of the lines and still be safe... but we cannot do this as it is illegal.

So read my posts carefully and do not read anything into them which is not there

Rennie

[MiniClubmanEstate]

Fair enough and I agree with everything you've said about the white lines.

That's a nice Midget by the way, do you do classic car shows?

[BillZZR600]

Hi Rennie.

How would MrsR's "shopping trolley" fair in the double white test, and how on earth do you manage to fit yourself into the midget, or do you only use it "top down" ?

[rlmr]

That's a nice Midget by the way, do you do classic car shows?

Sorry not these days. Carry out the maintenance and servicing but mainly enjoy driving it

How would MrsR's "shopping trolley" fair in the double white test, and how on earth do you manage to fit yourself into the midget, or do you only use it "top down" ?

I certanly would not get in the way of the boss' tesco trolley . There is an amazing amount of leg room in the MG... so long aas you can fold up your legs to get in . Must admit I do prefer it with the roof down, but we do live in Scotland and if we only kept the likes of the MG and the bike for dry days we would not use them a lot .

Rennie

[Porker]

RR writes "OK back off my soap box having duly apologised to all the driving Gods who frequent this site... I am a mere mortal who appreciates how easy it is not to get everything right all the time."

Porker writes: Hopefully we'd all class ourselves in the more mortal group.

Either way, there's always room for a cock-up, so caution's required on everyone's part.

Porker

[TripleS]

RR writes "OK back off my soap box having duly apologised to all the driving Gods who frequent this site... I am a mere mortal who appreciates how easy it is not to get everything right all the time."

Porker writes: Hopefully we'd all class ourselves in the more mortal group.

Either way, there's always room for a cock-up, so caution's required on everyone's part.

Porker

<applause>

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[7db]

Incidentally I had a little insight the other day whilst driving on a road with restricted lateral vision -- whilst we often think about the

furthest point which we can reasonably exepct to remain clear (in order to be able to stop there), this is exactly the same as the

nearest point that a surprise might come from