IAM MASTERS TEST

[Stephen]

Nigel,
I do not wish to start a debate on the subject of paid tuition or ADI's delivering the training,what I will say is that I believe that there is a very large gap between teaching learners to pass a test and teaching full licence holders to take either a SFL or ROSPA equivelent.

I beleive that the best one's for the job are the one's who are trained in the field of their expertise along with experience in it,on the other hand preperation for the Masters is not just a couple of hours brush up in the hope that it will be alright on the day.

Now,here is were I stick my head above the parapit and say that an ADI who is just that with no other Advanced qualification ie IAM or ROSPA could hope to deliver what is expected for an Advanced qualification,however one's that have furthered themselves such as above,hopefully will have a better understanding of what the Principles of Advanced driving is.

I would go as far as saying that some of the Observers and Seniors who have years of experience in this field are just as capable of delivering the training that might be required for the Masters,I might point out that the Mentoring that the IAM say comes with the training is not paid tuition it is free.

I was asked to mentor the two that I did and I done it out of the goodness of my heart and on my days off,and did not want or expect any payment,apart from a cup of t here and there with an odd donought thrown in,the Masters is being pushed amongst the IAM groups but to be honest Nigel it will be nowhere as popular as the basic SFL test .

The one thing that I hope is done right is the standard in which it has to be delivered is correct across the country and not just from Region to Region,they do say that the Masters is the pinnacle of driving and on a parr with Police driving without the speed,some how i dont think so,but that is just my opinion.

I unlike a lot of Examiners have had to take the IAM test and have been an Observer and Senior Observer with my local group for best part of 20 yrs,so,I hopefully think I know what is required,and how others feel when going through the training side of things.

One last point and I think it is a valid one there is a difference between sitting behind the wheel and driving hopefully to the standard daily, to sitting in the passenger seat and teaching learners to drive,I learn more from being with other experienced Advanced drivers,I have never learnt much from the learner,if that makes sense.

[Nigel]

I totally agree with almost everything you say.have a happy Christmas

[Stephen]

Merry Christmas to one and all and keep safe when out and about

[hir]

The one thing that I hope is done right is the standard in which it has to be delivered is correct across the country and not just from Region to Region,they do say that the Masters is the pinnacle of driving and on a parr with Police driving without the speed,some how i dont think so,but that is just my opinion.

Hi Stephen,

Do your doubts relate to the consistency of standards across the country or, that Master is on a par with police driving without the speed, please?

Either way I'd be pleased to hear your views on this.

Merry Christmas.

[Stephen]

My doubts are based on a number of things,yes,one of them is the ability to have the consistency across the board and throughout the regions.

The one thing I dont want to be seen is the way in which the Roadcraft book is being taken and Individual elements of it are being watered down,so much that it makes a mockery of what Advanced Driving is all about,hence the need for a coom ground of consistency.

We will just have to wait and see but I am not hopeful,as I have seen the standard drop across the country,over the years,in not just Advanced Driving,but also in DSA standards as well,which adds to the lower standard of driving that we witness,daily throughout the country.

[hir]

The one thing I don't want to be seen is the way in which the Roadcraft book is being taken and Individual elements of it are being watered down,so much that it makes a mockery of what Advanced Driving is all about,hence the need for a common ground of consistency.

As mentioned in another place, we all need to address our concerns to Peter and Amanda. If we are to have a realistic chance of avoiding the "blinkered", watered-down, HTBABD only approach to Masters then we must make our views known to the two people who will make the final decision.

[martine]

...I have seen the standard drop across the country,over the years,in not just Advanced Driving,but also in DSA standards as well,which adds to the lower standard of driving that we witness,daily throughout the country.

Bit off topic but why do you say DSA standards have dropped? In my opinion the current L-test is more demanding than the one I took ('ahem' years ago ).

[Stephen]

Simple It's a simple way of showing them how to pass a test it doe's not give them life skills,as all people want to do is the minimum amount of lessons to pass the test,if an ADI recommends more lessons then they think that they are just after making money.

We need to legislate it and not like the Pass Plus scheme which did not solve any of the problems,it needs the people who know what they are talking about to all get together and come up with a system that works and will work as if legislated for and they dont follow suite then no licence simple,so they will have to do it no matter what the cost and that is the problem cost £££.

I have made my feelings known to one of the two you mention and they give me their assurances that they are working on this to have a hopefully structured and standard system across the country,I suppose it's just a case of watch this space.

[hir]

I have made my feelings known to one of the two you mention and they give me their assurances that they are working on this to have a hopefully structured and standard system across the country,I suppose it's just a case of watch this space.

Stephen, thanks for response. What's exercising our minds, given another member's recent experience with the Special Assessment, is upon what will this "standard system across the country" be based - HTBABD only or, Roadcraft as well?

Do you have any insight into their thinking on this matter?

[fungus]

Simple It's a simple way of showing them how to pass a test it doe's not give them life skills,as all people want to do is the minimum amount of lessons to pass the test,if an ADI recommends more lessons then they think that they are just after making money.

We need to legislate it and not like the Pass Plus scheme which did not solve any of the problems,it needs the people who know what they are talking about to all get together and come up with a system that works and will work as if legislated for and they dont follow suite then no licence simple,so they will have to do it no matter what the cost and that is the problem cost £££.

On the first point. Many ADIs try to teach more than just how to pass the basic L test. But you are correct, many parents and pupils want the minimum number of lessons at the minimum cost, and for an ADI to suggest otherwise is likely to loose them business, which in the current economic climate is not something they want.

Given that the crash rate amongst new drivers and drivers under the age of 24 is so high, despite this group representing only 1 in 6 of drivers on our roads, the answer must be for government to legislate, and introduce a minimum number of hours with an ADI, with assessments given after a certain number of hours by a suitably qualified ADI. Private practice could be allowed once a certain standard is achieved, ie. after passing the first assessment, and the test can only be taken once the pupil is signed off as test ready by a suitably qualified independent ADI. Once the test has been passed, then within a period of six months the new driver will have to take and pass a second test, all this in vehicles below a certain BHP, before being allowed drive higher powered vehicles.

The insurance industry could do more to encourage further training by offering first premiums more cheaply and increasing them if extra training is not taken. If an at fault crash takes place within the first year, then the premium would be doubled. Along with this, should be fines for those that choose to drive without insurance, that equal the cost of the insurance premium, not about a tenth of it. If measures such as these were introduced, it may go some way towards building a culture of further improvement.

I can't see this happening though, as for any political party to mention doing such a thing, would be political suicide, as in the minds of 99% the electorate, a driving licence is a right, not a privilege.

Back to the teaching of learners, there is the issue of parents being allowed to teach their children. Whilst most parents would not be able to teach or impart correct knowledge, many on this forum for instance, although not ADIs, would be quite capable of teaching their children to a level well above the basic L test. Should legislation stop them from doing so?

[Nigel]

If only, never going to happen

[Silk]

...I have seen the standard drop across the country,over the years,in not just Advanced Driving,but also in DSA standards as well,which adds to the lower standard of driving that we witness,daily throughout the country.

Bit off topic but why do you say DSA standards have dropped? In my opinion the current L-test is more demanding than the one I took ('ahem' years ago ).

I'm not sure that harder necessarily means better.

I believe there are plenty of boy-racers out there who'd sail through the hardest of tests, including an Advanced one, but their inexperience and immaturity would ultimately let them down.

All the current test does is to price people out and possibly tempt them into driving illegally.

[jameslb101]

Once the test has been passed, then within a period of six months the new driver will have to take and pass a second test, all this in vehicles below a certain BHP, before being allowed drive higher powered vehicles.

I think even the cars on sale with the most meagre of outputs can crack a ton these days, or not far off. If aimed right (or should I say wrong) that can do plenty of damage. I'd wager putting the same driver in a car of more power would make only a negligible impact on their propensity to bin it. Was I safer in my first car (a 63 bhp Rover mini) or my most recent (a 250bhp Volvo S60)?

I believe there are plenty of boy-racers out there who'd sail through the hardest of tests, including an Advanced one, but their inexperience and immaturity would ultimately let them down.

Yes. Attitude has a far greater bearing on safety than "skill". Having said that, while for a certain demographic (the boy-racers) further tests may not affect their safety, for other groups (older folk, who visibly can't keep up with the mental process of driving) retesting would bring great gains.

[jcochrane]

"...for other groups (older folk, who visibly can't keep up with the mental process of driving) retesting would bring great gains."


Hey what's all this about us older folk.

[jameslb101]

"...for other groups (older folk, who visibly can't keep up with the mental process of driving) retesting would bring great gains."


Hey what's all this about us older folk.

It was you I had in mind when I wrote that