IAM Skills Day

[WhoseGeneration]

You're too kind.

But my point is that when driving to 95% or more of a car's potential, I don't see massive wear of brake and tyres. At the more modest pace of an IAM Skills day, wear, if anything, will be less. It's just a matter of physics.

Cheers

I was thinking more of the driver's potential, in that some can utilise the maximum from the car with little wear, whilst others cannot.
F1?, an extreme example as regards our discussion but not totally irrelevant.

[stefan einz]

You're too kind.

But my point is that when driving to 95% or more of a car's potential, I don't see massive wear of brake and tyres. At the more modest pace of an IAM Skills day, wear, if anything, will be less. It's just a matter of physics.

Cheers

I was thinking more of the driver's potential, in that some can utilise the maximum from the car with little wear, whilst others cannot.
F1?, an extreme example as regards our discussion but not totally irrelevant.

Yes, I see your point, but that really only applies in the region where you are very close to the limits of car's grip and the relationship between slip angle, g-force generated and wear is not linear.

We need to separate out brake pad wear and tyre wear.

For the brakes, it really is a simple factor of energy lost. That is just a function of speed scrubbed off, not technique. (As an aside, brakes can be overheated by poor technique - long and light braking rather than hard and short, but that does not really affect wear rates*, just the risk of fade.)

For tyres, someone using very large slip angles could indeed wear tyres quite quickly even at lower speeds, but I'd expect any IAM driver (and certainly not one under instruction) to not provoke terminal understeer (at least not more than once!).

Cheers


* Except on ceramic coated rotors, where there is a wear issue with poor technique. This is due to the coating overheating and breaking up, which can cause rapid degradation of the surface.

[Slink_Pink]

So, back to the OP's question - what does the driver get out of it? Anything more tangible than this:

allow you to explore your cars limits in relative safety

I also have no particular interest in track driving as an exercise in itself but I would consider such an event if I felt that there were some real and useful outcomes. As an example, I'd like to go on a skid pan session because I think that experiencing a potentially disastrous situation in a controlled environment would give me the skills to deal with it should it occur on the road. Not particularly well explained (I've not had enough coffee yet) but I hope the point is clear.

[stefan einz]

So, back to the OP's question - what does the driver get out of it? Anything more tangible than this:

allow you to explore your cars limits in relative safety

I also have no particular interest in track driving as an exercise in itself but I would consider such an event if I felt that there were some real and useful outcomes. As an example, I'd like to go on a skid pan session because I think that experiencing a potentially disastrous situation in a controlled environment would give me the skills to deal with it should it occur on the road. Not particularly well explained (I've not had enough coffee yet) but I hope the point is clear.

If you will forgive the length, the post that I recently put up on the IAM Forum may help with "what does the driver get out of it [the Skills day]?".

To summarise:

- one can develop cornering techqnique in a safe and repeatable environment
- one can use higher speeds safely, giving the driver more "in reserve" when back on the road
- one can develop other "tools in the box", like heel & toe
- one can experience the effects of weight management (e.g. trail braking) on grip and traction

I agree it can also help develop an awareness of one's car's limits, but this is not the only benefit, as per above.

Hope this helps.

Inspired by IAM's reply on the Masters / SA thread, I want, respectfully, to challenge the orthodoxy that I often hear within the IAM on track driving techniques.

I write as someone who has been track driving for over 10 years, and who raced (albeit very much as a beginner) for 3 years. That either makes me qualified to have a view, or biased. That's for you to decide!

My perspective is simply this. I have become a better road driver as a result of my time on track. I steer better. I have more "in reserve" because my brain is accustomed to processing information at a faster rate as a result of high speed track driving. I have mastered heel & toe, so it can be used safely on the road. And perhaps above all I am much more aware of how to manage a car's mass to optimise grip (and thus increase safety margins for any given speed).

So when I read comments that imply that track driving techniques have no place on the road, I am bound to question whether the authors really understand what they are saying.

My track driving has also drawn strongly from my advanced road training. I am not a naturally gifted track driver, but I've become proficient by being systematic and smooth, and by taking a lot of training. (At the bottom of this post, if you are so minded, you can see a clip of me driving at the Ring. You'll see I am not gifted enough the hang the tail out like some, but rather prefer to display a calm, measured approach to track driving.)

At the heart of both my track and road driver training is, as you would expect, the right attitude - where safety is paramount (even when racing, I used to say to myself as I strapped myself into the car that being safe was more important than winning. Perhaps that's why the best I ever did was a 2nd in class, but I don't regret that order of priorities).

And so when we talk about someone using, for example, heel & toe (H&T) on the road, what is our real objection? Is it the perception that it is a technique for the racetrack, where driving is far more reckless? Or is there a more substantive objection?

H&T is usually the main target for those who talk about inappropriate use of track techniques. And yet Roadcraft states that BGOL is desirable at times. I'd go further - at times BGOL is optimal. H&T is BGOL with rev match, and so I struggle with why it is so disliked in some circles.

On a recent drive in Cornwall, I was on some tight and twisty B and C class roads. Absolute speeds were low but there was a lot of accelerating and braking as I chose to drive progressively (because it was fun and thankfully "they" haven't outlawed fun yet!). Given the short distance between some corners, had I forced myself to separate braking and gearchanging at all times, it would have interrupted the flow of the drive quite badly.

And perhaps more importantly, it would have reduced my safety margin (assuming an equivalent entry speed). Why? Because on some of those tight, blind bends I was turning in with my foot just brushing the brake (as I was just finishing the braking phase). If I had been on the gas, and something was blocking the road, I could still stop, because my entry speed was matched to my vision. But for the same entry speed and with H&T, I'd have saved half a second moving from throttle to brake. I'd have stopped with more margin for a given speed.

I use this example because I have often heard people say H&T reduces safety margins. When you think about it, and you leave all other variables the same, that can't actually be right. At worst it is the same as separating; at times it will be better.

All this said, I acknowledge that H&T is a technique that should be perfected (as I chose to do) on track, not on the road (the main risk is one's foot slipping off the brake). Or if it is developed on the road, it should be done under instruction and carefully. But once mastered, it adds to the flow and smoothness of a drive. And many Class 1 drivers I know agree.

The other big change in my driving was steering. I used to be a pull push "nibbler". I would shuffle my hands about for small turns. After a few seasons of track driving, I realised the blindingly obvious, that two hands on the wheel gives twice the information about grip levels and is far superior to PP for most corners, particularly at higher speed. I started using fixed grip on the road, but flexibly. For tighter corners, I'd still PP, or sometimes pre-steer so my hands would be at quarter to three at the bend's apex. I don't use rotational steering; that's just a personal choice because I find fixed grip and PP blend perfectly. And indeed that's very much Roadcraft's advice, but I probably use fixed grip for tighter turns than Roadcraft suggests (I'm happy going to 12 and 6, or even a bit beyond provided I can see my way through the curve and won't need more than that).

And so we come onto weight management. One of the early tenets of advanced driving that one is taught is to be back on the gas before steering for a corner. That's clearly sensible and appropriate for much of the time, but no one is going to persuade me it's optimal all of the time. Roads have cambers and gradients, cars have different weight distributions and road surfaces are not always uniformally grippy. Even after a short time on track, the effects of weight distribution on tyre grip, and how this can by dynamically affected by your steering, braking and throttle inputs, are clear.

On the road, I use the brakes flexibly to shift weight in the car, and often trail brake (not in extremis as one does on track, but subtly to add just a bit of extra grip to the front of the car). If a bend suddenly tightens, I know that my brakes are my friends and that I can steer positively even with quite heavy braking (well before locking up) because the extra weight on the front gives the front tyres more grip. I equally know that in some cars (like old 911s), turning in on the gas just lifts the nose and promotes understeer. In summary, I've just become much more aware of mass management and how to optimise grip for any given speed and situation.

So, to come back to where I started. I think there's much we as road drivers can learn from track driving. I'm not talking about a literal transfer, but an application of the principles that can make us safer road drivers.

I look forward to being challenged!

Cheers


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH3-MaW-Aaw

[jcochrane]

So, back to the OP's question - what does the driver get out of it? Anything more tangible than this:

allow you to explore your cars limits in relative safety

I also have no particular interest in track driving as an exercise in itself but I would consider such an event if I felt that there were some real and useful outcomes. As an example, I'd like to go on a skid pan session because I think that experiencing a potentially disastrous situation in a controlled environment would give me the skills to deal with it should it occur on the road. Not particularly well explained (I've not had enough coffee yet) but I hope the point is clear.

Driving on a track will help in your road driving. I have been on an IAM day and no one should worry about wear of tyres or brakes. Speeds are kept down to legal limits, with the use of chicanes if necessary (helmets are not required or supplied and therefore the speed restriction is a requirement of the circuit owners). You will have an instructor with you and the focus will be on cornering. Use of brakes, accelerator, line etc.

For any one who has not had the advantage of being taught and practicing on a track then they will get a great deal out of the day which will immensely help them with their road driving and are to be highly recommended.

For those who already have this experience, for example HPC members, then this maybe is not for them. For a similar sum of money they will have access all day, not just an hour or two, on a track or proving ground with, in my opinion, more experienced instructors.

[IanB]

I guess you're not talking about Croft as no chicanes were used there. The circuit itself limits speed and only the quickest cars could achieve three-figure speeds there although most could certainly get over 70 on the straights.

For those that are interested there is usually a very sophisticated skid-car available at Croft (not for use on the track) and you can book a session in that if you wish.

[jcochrane]

I guess you're not talking about Croft as no chicanes were used there. The circuit itself limits speed and only the quickest cars could achieve three-figure speeds there although most could certainly get over 70 on the straights.

For those that are interested there is usually a very sophisticated skid-car available at Croft (not for use on the track) and you can book a session in that if you wish.

You are correct I went to Mallory.

[oxtondriver]

I'm considering going along to an IAM skills day in 2014.

I was wondering that now all the driver skills days are over for another year if anyone who went along to one in 2013 was willing to share their experience of the day.
What was the format of the day like?
What did you learn?
Would you recommend the day?

Many thanks

Kris

[waremark]

There was a reasonably good write-up with reports by 5 people who attended in the recent edition of the IAM magazine. Do you have access to a copy? While I expect that any negative comments will have been edited out, most of your questions would probably be answered.

[IanB]

I'm considering going along to an IAM skills day in 2014.

I was wondering that now all the driver skills days are over for another year if anyone who went along to one in 2013 was willing to share their experience of the day.
What was the format of the day like?
What did you learn?
Would you recommend the day?

Many thanks

Kris

As you probably know the skills days are sold as half-day sessions. It starts with registration and showing your documents at which point you get a couple of vouchers for coffee at the snack van, which is there all day. Then follows a short induction at which the rules of the track are explained, how to enter and leave, where you can overtake and what the various flags mean that you may see from time to time etc.

You are then paired with another participant and allocated an instructor then take it in turns to go on track for approximately 15 minute sessions. Some instructors may take both of you in the car, one driving their own car, the other observing, if all agree. Most, but not all, of the instructors are from a Police background. One was from HPC. You might get lucky and get a demo drive in a nice car but that is the exception rather than the rule.

What you learn depends on you, your experience and what you want from the day. Some want to simply improve their car control skills, e.g. smoothness, correct choice of gear, balance when cornering etc., others will want to experience what their car can really do. All are catered for.

This is more expensive than an open track day but IMO, much safer, due to the low density of vehicles on the track (sometimes it feels as if you are on your own) and the fact that everyone is accompanied by an instructor at all times. If you are an experience open track day type then this is probably not for you. If you are new to driving or relatively inexperienced or have a nice car and want to see what it can really do then it's a great day out and you get to meet lots of like-minded folks.

I'd certainly recommend it, I was at two this year and will be going back next year.

If you have any questions fire away.

[oxtondriver]

There was a reasonably good write-up with reports by 5 people who attended in the recent edition of the IAM magazine.

Thanks Waremark I forgot about that article. Had the magazine in my work bag ready for a quiet shift in work. Just had a read now and some interesting stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to write up that summary IanB. That was just what I was after, very informative. Great vids too. I could see from your videos there's not much on the track at once, you certainly don't get in each other's way.
I have a focus ST and never done a track day before. So I think my main objective for the day would to be to see what It can do while working on smoothness and balance through the corners. And to have some fun while I'm at it.

I see you have a fiesta st. Sounds lovely when you blip the throttle on the down changes.
Couple of questions. Is it seen as greedy to book a morning and afternoon session on the same day? Or are you restricted from doing this?
And I see from one of your above posts that there is no speed restrictions in force. Was that still the case this year?

Many thanks
Kris

[IanB]

Couple of questions. Is it seen as greedy to book a morning and afternoon session on the same day? Or are you restricted from doing this?
And I see from one of your above posts that there is no speed restrictions in force. Was that still the case this year?

Many thanks
Kris

You can book both sessions no problem, both myself and my colleague did exactly that on both days this year. There were no artificial speed restrictions at all. There are however noise restrictions but if your car is standard that should not be a problem. Some have to ease off when passing the noise meter.

As an added bonus if you are insured with IAM Surety they will cover you for a £15 admin fee.

[oxtondriver]

You can book both sessions no problem, both myself and my colleague did exactly that on both days this year. There were no artificial speed restrictions at all. There are however noise restrictions but if your car is standard that should not be a problem. Some have to ease off when passing the noise meter.

As an added bonus if you are insured with IAM Surety they will cover you for a £15 admin fee.

Thanks for the reply Ian, it looks like I'll be adding a skills day to my Christmas list. I am with IAM surety to so that's good to know.

Just out of interest what camera were you using to film your videos? I'm saving for one but not sure what to get. The picture quality on yours looked very good.

Cheers

[IanB]

The one linked to in the earlier post (without the overlay) was a Nokia 808. The other one you found on YT was an iPhone 5. The overlaid telemetry is provided by using Harry's Lap Timer to video the laps.

[oxtondriver]

Wow that is good quality from a mobile phone. Thought you were going to say it was a proper dash cam.

Thanks for all your help Ian.