Tips for driving an automatic...

[JamesH]

Very kindly, my parents have agreed to insure me on their Volvo for the weekend. It's a tank of a V90, but my reason for wanting to give it a go is because it's automatic. I've never driven one for any length of time, and have a run up to Warwick to do on Sunday, so thought it would be a good opportunity.

My question for you all is: what tips you could give a novice automatic driver?

I've been for a run round the block with my dad, and found out about park, drive, the 'creep' when you take the footbrake off, etc. I'm interested as to how you apply the system in an automatic, when you clearly have less direct control over the gears.

One example that came into my mind as we drove was having to stay on the brakes all the way down a gentle hill, rather than using a gear and some engine braking to stop it running away. Would you use the lower gear functions in the gear box?

There does seem to be less of an option to use acceleration sense, at least as markedly as I can in my little polo.

Any ideas?

[Nigel]

I had loads of "fun" trying to do the system in an auto.

Like you, I'd done my advanced in a manual, I had driven auto's, bosses cars at work, and for quite some distances around europe, but I'd only ever stuck them in drive, and let the box sort it.

A gentleman called David Wornham, who is my local group boss, retired police class one, IAM fleet trainer etc etc sorted me out, with one of his tuition runs.

Firstly, although we can chat about this between ourselves, it would be very hard to write a manual for auto's now, as there are just so many variations, all with flashy names, tiptronic, steptronic etc, they alll behave differently.

Some of them aren't even automatics in the sense I imagine we mean, they are manuals, but with an electronic controlled clutch and gear selection.

Just as an example, I was lucky enough to be allowed to drive the latest BMW M5 supercar when it was launched, this car looks like an auto, it has no clutch, you can change gear manually by moving a joy stick forwards or backwards, you can use padels on the steering wheel, you can select fully automatic ( which isn't actually true), in fact, this car has eleven different gearbox modes, selectable by the driver.

The one that caught me out, ironically, was fully automatic. This cars gearbox isn't an auto ( due to the sheer power, BMW don't have a true auto that can handle the 507 bhp this thing puts out), so the box has no torque converter (which is the bit that gives you the "creep"), so my first mistake was to allow the car to roll backwards whilst in drive, you need to keep some revs on in this cars case, to stop that happening.

Another one I've come across was a semi auto type, it was an A class merc my wife had as a loan car, this one had a gear lever, but no clutch, you picked a gear by moving the lever, and it decided if, & when it would engage it, depending on what you were doing at the time.

I've no idea where this leaves auto licence holders legally, we are ok with manual licences, as we can drive all gearbox types, but what counts as auto, and what as manual these days ?

I'd suggest that at first you just enjoy the drive, have a play around with the box on a quiet stretch somewhere, get used to what it does when you use its different modes ( mine has three, economical, manual & sports), practise locking it down, and get used to feeling engine brake when you do, and the lack of it when you don't lock down.

Also ( I'm not sure what power you have to play with), but get used to what happens when you hit kickdown, mine has a reasonable amount of power, and when kickdown is hit, it will drop two gears and go into "launch" mode, with a bit of lag, and it doesn't care what is in the way

Don't worry too much about trying to drive perfectly to the system to start with, you are actually learning to drive a different type of vehicle, so obviously wouldn't expect to go straight in at "advanced" level.

The main problems I experienced were a general feeling of not quite being in control, finding myself braking more than I wanted to,braking on bends to avoid wallow ( gentle braking), and making my rear seat passengers feel uncomfortable with a see saw type motion of accelerating and braking.

It will be interesting to see how you get on, and what specific questions you have upon your return.

[Nigel]

One other quick point, if you leave it in drive at traffic lights (which you should do), with the handbrake on, don't be tempted to rev the engine to hear the nice exhaust note you have !

Ask me how I know this one

[JamesH]

So at "long stops" where I would go for handbrake and neutral, are you supposed to leave it in drive, and apply the handbrake - instead of holding it on the footbrake?

[Nigel]

So at "long stops" where I would go for handbrake and neutral, are you supposed to leave it in drive, and apply the handbrake - instead of holding it on the footbrake?

You would need to read the vehicle handbook to get the true answer to this one.

In a perfect world, I'd advise you apply the handbrake, place the car in neutral, let the car settle by releasing the footbrake, then place it in park.

My handbook however tells me not to do this, and the information from BMW themselves backs up the handbook, in short they are teling me my gearbox will overheat if left in neutral or park with the engine running, and the action of going from neutral or park, into drive or reverse, is the one that causes wear of this expensive piece of equipment.

There is also a train of thought ( taught in advanced circles), that to leave your brake lights on may annoy those behind you, ( I'm not too bothered by this personally, if brake lights bother you that much I think you need a trip to an optician).

The general cover all advice seems to be apply the handbrake, gently release the footbrake (allowing the car to settle, it will move on its suspension when you do this), and cover the brake with your foot, not the accelerator, as if bumped from the rear you'd rather your foot went accidentaly onto the brake, not the accelerator.

[JamesH]

Thanks Nigel.

I also found this topic: http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb/vi ... .php?t=136

Not to suggest though that I'm really thinking I'm going to achieve Gold level on my first weekend driving an auto though... It's something to aim for though eh?!

[martine]

There is also a train of thought ( taught in advanced circles), that to leave your brake lights on may annoy those behind you, ( I'm not too bothered by this personally, if brake lights bother you that much I think you need a trip to an optician).

Not good at night though with maybe 3 fairly high intensity red lights glazing at you from close quarters.

In my household we have both manual and auto and I've never really got the hang of the auto in advanced terms. I know you're meant to use the lock-down more than you'd expect (downhill, force to keep in a preferred gear for hazards etc). I think opinion is divided about what to do when stationery. One 'expert' told me to put it into neutral - as keeping it drive was like holding a manual on the clutch and that would cause the gearbox to overheat.

As Nigel said I guess all you can do is read the manual for the particular car.

[TripleS]

There is also a train of thought ( taught in advanced circles), that to leave your brake lights on may annoy those behind you, ( I'm not too bothered by this personally, if brake lights bother you that much I think you need a trip to an optician).

Not good at night though with maybe 3 fairly high intensity red lights glazing at you from close quarters.

Well that's my feeling too, Martin. I think Nigel is being a bit inconsiderate there, but of course he's only an advanced driver not an Advanced Driver, so one must make allowances.

In any case, he posts a good deal of sensible and helpful stuff here so please don't mention this mild criticism, as I wouldn't want to offend him.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[JamesH]

I've had a bit of a fiddle today...

The gear selector has several options:
Park (obviously)
Reverse (ditto)
Neutral (and again)
Drive ...
"3"
"L"

3 seems to not let it go beyond 3rd or 4th, I've not quite worked out which. I expected it to be able to hold down a bit more than it does. That's to say i was hoping to be able to use it to hold a 30mph going down a gentle gradient - it doesn't. It will just about hold 40 going down a moderate slope.

L seems to not let it go beyond 1st / 2nd. For anything more than 15-20mph it's impractical.

Overall it seems that 3 may be useful if you want to hold it down at higher speeds - say you're throwing it around some lanes (not that you can really throw an estate car around...)

Haven't quite worked out when I'd want L - any ideas?

Tomorrow is exploring the kickdown features on the motorway up to Warwick!

[Nigel]

I havent got a Volvo, so I'm unsure of what their markings mean, if in doubt, RTFI (read the flippin instructions)



There are so many variations on these things, its just about impossible to know them all.

[Nigel]

Martin

As regards burning the box out by keeping it in drive, I think this will depend on whether it is a true auto with a torque coverter.

If it is, I don't think it has a clutch, just an oil reservoir with an impeller form the engine, and another at the opposite end to transmit the drive.

[jibberjabber25]

I've no idea where this leaves auto licence holders legally, we are ok with manual licences, as we can drive all gearbox types, but what counts as auto, and what as manual these days ?

Hi Nigel. According to the law, an automatic basically translates into clutchless. This means that an "auto" license holder can drive any car that does not have a clutch pedal. Of course this means they cannot drive vehicles that are fitted with a clutch pedal.

On the other hand, if you do your L-test in a tiptronic then the disadvantage is that you will be given an automatic license, not a manual one, since it does not have a clutch pedal it is classed as automatic by the DSA/DVLA.

3 seems to not let it go beyond 3rd or 4th, I've not quite worked out which. I expected it to be able to hold down a bit more than it does. That's to say i was hoping to be able to use it to hold a 30mph going down a gentle gradient - it doesn't. It will just about hold 40 going down a moderate slope.

Greeting JamesH. This is most likely 3rd gear lower hold, not 4. Reason being that most automatics are 4-speed (except for very modern ones) so holding the car in 4th would have no advantage over Drive, making this unnecessary.

You are correct, this position will not allow the gearbox to exceed third gear, but it will change through gears 1 to 3 however. It is not like 3rd gear selection on a manual transmission that will keep the vehicle in that gear alone.

L seems to not let it go beyond 1st / 2nd. For anything more than 15-20mph it's impractical.

Haven't quite worked out when I'd want L - any ideas?

L (representing LOW) would most likely be 2nd gear lower hold. Once again the gearbox will change between 1st and 2nd gear, but not exceed 2nd gear while the lever is in this position.

You would want to use L on a steep uphill/downhill gradient usually, especially where signs indicate "Use a low gear".

I hope this has helped (I have passed my IAM test in an automatic and have been driving an automatic ever since I have passed my L test [which is 17 months], however I am a full license holder having learned and passed my L test in a manual).

I should note that your setup does differ somewhat to mine. Mine is a bit more self explanitory with positions:

P
R
N
D
3 (3rd gear lower hold)
2 (2nd gear lower hold)
1 (1st gear hold)

[Nigel]

Jibber.

A tiptronic does indeed have a clutch, so I am led to believe, what it doesn't have is a clutch pedal

[Nigel]

Jibber.

It may also be worth you noting that even older gearboxes have different modes, mine is a four speed plus overdrive ( how that differs from five sped I'm unsure).

As well as having the things you describe, mine also has a three way function switch, where I can select manual, economy, or sports.

If I select manual, and then select third, it will indeed stay in third, it will not change between one, two and three.

[jibberjabber25]

Jibber.

A tiptronic does indeed have a clutch, so I am led to believe, what it doesn't have is a clutch pedal

OOPS, sorry my bad, yes it does have a clutch, but no pedal.

It may also be worth you noting that even older gearboxes have different modes, mine is a four speed plus overdrive ( how that differs from five sped I'm unsure).

As well as having the things you describe, mine also has a three way function switch, where I can select manual, economy, or sports.

If I select manual, and then select third, it will indeed stay in third, it will not change between one, two and three.

Yes, of course that goes without saying. I am talking about a traditional fully automatic vehicle, not one with "manual" modes so called tiptronic or semi-automatic.

In JamesH's case this is very unlikely to be the case as he has not mentioned any manual modes in his car. I'm sure if his car had manual modes he would have mentioned it.

However, <takes out notepad> your statements have been noted...<puts away notepad>