Car or Driver

[jcochrane]

I'm sure there are many things to be learnt from good racing drivers, but I suspect the cracks start to appear once they're away from the twisty B roads. Once that happens, they'd have many more things to learn from good road drivers.

Why would you suspect that?

[jcochrane]

For me, it's good road drivers. I don't really care for motorsport of any description.

I suppose everyone has different definitions of "good" - can you say what the attributes are that you would aspire to?

Chris

In a word, "uneventful".

Another member on the forum and I were talking of a driver we both admire and acknowledge as an exceptionally good driver and he has done a fair bit of motor racing. One of the phrases used to describe his driving was "inspirational"

[waremark]

There is, in my view, more to a good drive than handling ability. I admire a drive that is smooth, precise, controlled, flowing, seamless, balanced, superb transition work, lots of light and shade and of course very safe.

Excellent set of objectives for a drive.

I would add sympathy to car, passengers and other road users.

[waremark]

So his ability to handle a car was beyond question. But would I class him as a good driver? Clearly not, because I didn't feel comfortable whilst he was driving. He failed to convince me that he was sufficiently taking everything into account. I doubt that even the Stig was able to see round blind bends!

I agree with you that my level of relaxation when being driven at a higher pace than that which I would use myself is greatly influenced by my knowledge of the driver. I also agree with John that this sounds like an uncomfortable experience.

So far as the ability to see round blind bends is concerned, you may well be right that his entry speeds were too high. However, it is worth bearing in mind that the racing driver probably has more precise and more consistent judgement of the distance needed to stop than most of us, as well as the ability to handle the car at the limit of its stopping ability, and that cars may well stop in much shorter distances even round bends than many of us realise.

[jcochrane]

So his ability to handle a car was beyond question. But would I class him as a good driver? Clearly not, because I didn't feel comfortable whilst he was driving. He failed to convince me that he was sufficiently taking everything into account. I doubt that even the Stig was able to see round blind bends!

I agree with you that my level of relaxation when being driven at a higher pace than that which I would use myself is greatly influenced by my knowledge of the driver. I also agree with John that this sounds like an uncomfortable experience.

So far as the ability to see round blind bends is concerned, you may well be right that his entry speeds were too high. However, it is worth bearing in mind that the racing driver probably has more precise and more consistent judgement of the distance needed to stop than most of us, as well as the ability to handle the car at the limit of its stopping ability, and that cars may well stop in much shorter distances even round bends than many of us realise.

That's very true, Mark. I was driving with a gentleman we both know. We were in an M5 up in Teesdale when a couple of sheep jumped down into our path. Fortunately he was driving as I doubt I could match his speed of reaction. We stopped safely. His reactions were quite clearly far more honed than mine as a result of a lifetime involvement in rallying.

[TripleS]

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[TripleS]

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[knighterrant]

There is, in my view, more to a good drive than handling ability. I admire a drive that is smooth, precise, controlled, flowing, seamless, balanced, superb transition work, lots of light and shade and of course very safe.

Excellent set of objectives for a drive.

I would add sympathy to car, passengers and other road users.

I like the definition we're coming up with here. May I also add courteousness and patience.

[Silk]

There is, in my view, more to a good drive than handling ability. I admire a drive that is smooth, precise, controlled, flowing, seamless, balanced, superb transition work, lots of light and shade and of course very safe.

Excellent set of objectives for a drive.

I would add sympathy to car, passengers and other road users.

I like the definition we're coming up with here. May I also add courteousness and patience.

I'd be surprised if the qualities described in the last few posts apply to motorsport.

[TripleS]

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[jcochrane]

I would argue that, "smooth, precise, controlled, flowing, seamless, balanced, superb transition work", "sympathy to car" and "patience" apply very much to motorsport.

Indeed, I always thought those features were prominent in Jim Clark's style, when he was in the F1 or F2 cars. His driving of the Lotus Cortina was rather more entertaining, with the inside front wheel up in the air.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Very true. Any one wishing to obtain a licence to race is required to complete and pass an ARDS course. These qualities are what the training is about. Safety and discipline are strongly and rigidly instilled throughout the course.

[knighterrant]

I always thought those features were prominent in Jim Clark's style, when he was in the F1 or F2 cars. His driving of the Lotus Cortina was rather more entertaining, with the inside front wheel up in the air.

Ah, wonderful memories. I still vividly recall watching him at Brands getting a near-side puncture in his Cortina just after Druids. He swung sharply off at Bottom Bend where I was standing (now called Graham Hill) and drove back up the grassy slope to the pits on just his off-side wheels. Sheer brilliance. He and Jackie Stewart set driving examples that few if any have managed to emulate.

[Silk]

I would argue that, "smooth, precise, controlled, flowing, seamless, balanced, superb transition work", "sympathy to car" and "patience" apply very much to motorsport.

Indeed, I always thought those features were prominent in Jim Clark's style, when he was in the F1 or F2 cars. His driving of the Lotus Cortina was rather more entertaining, with the inside front wheel up in the air.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Very true. Any one wishing to obtain a licence to race is required to complete and pass an ARDS course. These qualities are what the training is about. Safety and discipline are strongly and rigidly instilled throughout the course.

How many pedestrians, cyclists, HGVs, junctions, speed limits, traffic coming the other way etc. would you find on a typical race track?

And do you really think Lewis Hamilton is worrying about wearing out the gearbox when he's trying to beat his lap record?

[WhoseGeneration]

And do you really think Lewis Hamilton is worrying about wearing out the gearbox when he's trying to beat his lap record?

If his race engineer is telling him so, yes, lest he recieve a grid penalty for a gearbox change not in accord with the regulations.
The current nonsense in Formula 1, the drivers are constrained from performing at their and their car's best.

[jcochrane]

How many pedestrians, cyclists, HGVs, junctions, speed limits, traffic coming the other way etc. would you find on a typical race track?

Speed limits - Pit lane, safety car, yellow flags.
Junctions - Pit entrance, pit exit
Opposing traffic - At race speeds, a stationary vehicle might as well be "coming the other way".

And do you really think Lewis Hamilton is worrying about wearing out the gearbox when he's trying to beat his lap record?

Yes. If he is too hard on the equipment, it will break. As I said before: in order to finish first...

Loads of other hazards like car debris and dropped fluids etc. on the circuit. I've even seen cars rolling the wrong way towards oncoming cars or bouncing back onto the circuit after a crash.

As a slight aside, what about the Black Flag with your car number below. Something in your driving has brought about the wrath of the Clerk of the Course. Your race is immediately over. Into the pits and up to the control tower to report to the Clerk of the Course for a dressing down, licence endorsed and any punishment according to the regs. The errant driver could also find themselves in front of a panel of Stewards to explain his poor driving. Often in a Championship the Co-Ordinator/Committee/Club may ban a driver from the championship for poor or unsafe driving. Seen it happen several times.

I do think Silk that you express views held by the vast majority people and it is quite understandable. I know I would share your views if it were not for the fact that I have been involved in motor sport as an MSA Official at all levels including F1 for more than 30 years.