Roundabout lane discipline

[Kevin]

Edit, and with regard to trying to avoid the white circle, try going straight ahead at this close to where I live. Apart from anything it's a mini being used as a traffic calming measure which I understand is not recommended. [Citation needed]

David

There seems to be quite a few like that. From looking at the rubber marks on the white paint, many drivers just go straight across it.

If someone is waiting to emerge from Phillipers I expect that will usually see vehicles travelling straight across, with little variation in speed. Someone who attempts to be law abiding will have to slow considerably and enter the mini-roundabout as if they were going to turn into Phillipers. Given that position and speed are often an indication of intention, the person waiting to emerge from Phillipers could be mistaken into thinking the approaching driver isn't going straight on (as most vehicles probably don't slow significantly or follow an exagerated line around the paint) and pull out in front of them. I know it wouldn't absolve the emerging driver, but that's no consolation for the parties involved in a little bump.

[michael769]

Were the penalties imposed for failing to give way to traffic from the right, (which, to my mind, does matter); or for driving over the painted area, (which, to my mind, does not matter)?

One was for going round the wrong side of the white dot, no other vehicles were involved - I do not recall the precise circumstances of the second, but it was not failing to give way.

My observation on the former is that some drivers do this to allow them to take the roundabout at too high a speed and in a manner where they would not be in a position to give way should it be required - I have certainly been forced to stop by such behavior.

[apple tango]

When there are others about I follow the correct lane around the roundabout (if they are marked) or hold what I consider to be the correct lane position if not.

If there is nobody else around then I have no problems with straightlining it, but I only tend to do this on fairly basic roundabouts. If it's big enough to have traffic lights and / or gyratory markings I would be inclined just to follow them.

Regarding mini-roundabouts... if it's a sensible design and I can get around it without touching the paint then I will. If it's badly designed then I will still make an effort to alter my path to go around it but don't worry too much if I cross the paint. I'll take my chances with a ticket. In the real world I think sometimes you're better conforming to what others expect than the exact letter of the law.

One was for going round the wrong side of the white dot ...

My observation on the former is that some drivers do this to allow them to take the roundabout at too high a speed and in a manner where they would not be in a position to give way should it be required ...

I nearly came unstuck by this behaviour once - seeing a vehicle approaching from the right I decided it would be safe for me to continue straight across. However it then cut right through the centre of the roundabout without slowing down rather than taking the line I expected, meaning it was a bit closer than I would have liked. I haven't made that mistake since.

[MGF]

Priority only needs to be given to vehicles already on the roundabout, not those approaching it from the right. It is an offence to enter a mini-roundabout so as

(i)to endanger any person, or(ii)to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Misunderstanding of this regulation causes drivers to enter roundabouts far to fast causing others to take evasive action.

I guess the reason for the prohibition of driving over the white paint is that the centre of the paint is not marked and as such it is difficult to tell if a vehicle is wholly on the nearside of it and hence driving in the correct direction around it.

[fungus]

Try turning right on this one near Bournemouth when travelling from 9-o-clock to 6-o-clock withought going over the centre dot. It is possible if you keep well to the left on approach. This junction is on a test route in Bournemouth, and my experience is that examiners take a lenient view if a candidate crosses the centre dot when turning right provided they don't go the wrong side.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=50.771526,-1 ... 3&t=h&z=21

[Big Err]

Try turning right on this one near Bournemouth when travelling from 9-o-clock to 6-o-clock withought going over the centre dot.

What a shockingly bad mini-roundabout!

[TripleS]

Post deleted.

[shinny]

If it's safe to do so and there's no-one about then why not.

Noone being around is pretty important here, I'd suggest.

My old commute used to involve this roundabout (for the Bristolians, it's the Willy Wicket roundabout heading west on A4174):



Mostly I'd be in lane 2, moving off from the lights and the vehicle infront of me would (the orange track) take the right turn only lane as our lane split in two. As I wanted to continue straight and am generally driving a more powerful vehicle than the one ahead, the temptation to accelerate into the clear lane is strong (the blue track). However I never gave in to the temptation and put my car side-by-side to be three abreast, as in a significant minority of cases the vehicle ahead would cut back across the lane markings without any indication or mirror check. In the event of an incident as the red X it would be difficult to defend the decision to accelerate into the clear lane, despite the misleading road positioning of the vehicle ahead.

My point being that straight lining a roundabout's lanes can be very confusing to surrounding vehicles. I sometimes straightline roundabouts when literally noone is around, but the moment there is another vehicle I stick to the marked lanes and try to indicate my intentions as best as possible.

[dombooth]

That looks like a lovely roundabout!!

How's this: http://goo.gl/maps/A4lSy

Or how about this bundle of fun: http://goo.gl/maps/9SdB9

Dom

[Ancient]

I agree with Dave, the mini roundabouts posted don't seem to me to require any 'normal' car to drive over the paint if the driver is prepared to slow down and steer appropriately (which may mean steering away from the 'target road' to start with - that's how roundabouts work), although I have come across miniRs that are difficult to avoid. These rondabouts are put in place in order to make cars take junctions more slowly and avoiding the paint achieves just that. If drivers are encouraged to (or believe 'advanced driving' encourages) drive over the paint, then that benefit (and it is generally a benefit) is lost.

Here's another that most drivers seem to drive over (although it seems to be fairly pristine in the image); sometimes a policeman stands there, apparently to encourage a correct line http://goo.gl/maps/fxfDv, or the one along the road http://goo.gl/maps/I9HUy which shows the wear from tyres more.

[shinny]

That looks like a lovely roundabout!!

Yes it is a good roundabout that's on the whole really easy to navigate and really pretty safe... but that's my point. IMHO a perfectly safe roundabout can be turned into a dangerous one by straight lining clearly marked lanes while around other traffic

However the biggest annoyance on that roundabout (and most of the others on the A4174) are the 24/7 traffic lights keeping you waiting at 2am when the road is entirely empty!

[Big Err]

Try turning right on this one near Bournemouth when travelling from 9-o-clock to 6-o-clock withought going over the centre dot.

What a shockingly bad mini-roundabout!

I don't profess to understand these things, so I'm not arguing with you, but I would be interested to know how you think it ought to have been done.

First thing Dave, did it need to be a mini-roundabout? From Google Street it looks quite a quiet area.

As for what is not correct. if you're having trouble sleeping at night take a look at the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges TD54/07. That is the design standard. The layout shown does not give adequate room for turning movements, it doesn't look like it can be negotiated without over running the centre marking. Two of the mini roundabout signs have been erected upside down. All of the entries have standard give way markings. This would usually be restricted to entries with restricted visibility and would normally be avoided for the side road approach on a T-junction where it could be misinterpreted by drivers to give way to traffic from both left and right directions as per a standard T junction. The presence of ironwork in the circulatory carriageway must add a dimension of excitement for two wheelers when it rains (does it rain in Bournemouth?).

[drm567]

Try turning right on this one near Bournemouth when travelling from 9-o-clock to 6-o-clock withought going over the centre dot.

It'd be even more difficult with the Transit parked there. But then perhaps the rules have been changed and Transits are grouped together with Chelsea Tractors and are allowed to park where they like.

This mini in Dunstable is another that I mutter about. (I think I may have talked about it on here before.) Turning right, yes it is possible to avoid the white disc, (though no one does, look at the tyre marks in the vertical view) but does it make sense to do so. And if not is 1) the law an ass, or 2) the junction badly laid out?

With regard to the one in Watford that I talked about further up topic. The GSV gives the impression that there is more room around the blob than in fact there is. Again, it is possible to avoid touching the white, but on the very few occasions that I have done so when there is some one on the left and giving way to me they have misinterpreted my move as a left turn and nearly t-boned me.

To return to my original post. Can I repeat what I said there; if it is safe to do so there is nothing wrong with straightlining. I maybe what I meant would be more clearly expressed by if it is safe to do so and there is no other traffic nearby there is nothing wrong with straightlining.

David

[fungus]

does it rain in Bournemouth?).

Barely stopped for 10 months.

I agree with Dave, the mini roundabouts posted don't seem to me to require any 'normal' car to drive over the paint if the driver is prepared to slow down and steer appropriately (which may mean steering away from the 'target road' to start with - that's how roundabouts work), although I have come across miniRs that are difficult to avoid.

The view I posted doesn't show how tight the turn is. Whilst it's possible to avoid the white paint in a car like a Ford Ka, anything bigger is likely to run the O/S rear wheel over the paint.

First thing Dave, did it need to be a mini-roundabout? From Google Street it looks quite a quiet area.

It is a quiet area. A little further ahead on the road to the right, the road has speed humps. These, and the roundabout, were probably installed to prevent the road being used as a rat run where drivers could avoid the Northbourne roundabout, which is the junction of the A 341 to Wimborne, and the A347 to Parley Cross and Ferndown. These roads can be busy during rush hours.

I would be warey of straight lining roundabouts like the examples posted by Dom. It is generally the smaller two lane roundabouts that I straighten.

[Jack]

On another forum that I subscribe to there is a lot of huffing and puffing about roundabout lane disciple. It seems that some of the members there feel that you should always drive round a roundabout in lane and that it is lazy driving to do otherwise. I don't agree and think that if your intended path is effectively a straight line and if it safe to do so there is nothing wrong with straightlining effectively taking the line of least resistance and minimising wear on tyres and suspension. What do other members (especially anyone who regularly drives in Milton Keynes!) think?

David

I drive around Milton Keynes regularly, mainly heading toward M1 J14 and did my IAM test there.

Providing it is safe to do so, i will straight line roundabouts, and did do in my test.

Also saves on the vehicles tyres.