Nearly side-swiped - dash cam footage

[shinny]

I had a close call on the way to work this morning and given I now have a dash camera I can take a second look at what happened. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be to blame had there been contact but I wonder if I could have sensibly negated the risk. Take a look, as I'd be interested to hear opinions and learn from it:

Front: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kDNpJoiVJ8

Rear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXFHoLig7aY

From my perspective, the BMW moved out to avoid a stationary van on a slip road, didn't check their mirrors and very nearly ran me into the central reservation. Now I had anticipated the driver might want to make the maneuver to let the yellow van out (not that there would have been space, given there was a white van behind the white BMW) but figured my presence would block its misplaced generosity.

Given I anticipated the driver might want to pull out, I guess I could have dropped back just in case. My question is whether most advanced drivers would actually have adjusted their driving in real life? It seems a little on the paranoid side to me to assume any car will veer into your lane (you'd never pass anything otherwise) but I've only done an IAM Skill for Life course so I'm very happy to be corrected and listen to suggetions

[Gareth]

I wasn't convinced you were keeping to the speed limit. Nice use of the horn of remonstration, by the way. Could have been a bit earlier, as soon as the BMW started to move rightwards.

[Custom24]

Not saying I would have necessarily done much better but yes, if I anticipate that someone might move into my lane, I don't rely on my presence deterring them. There is a difference between paranoia and being cautious.

I would have preferred to see more of the clip leading up, rather than afterwards. Was your speed an issue?

[Kevin]

Oh dear! What would Slicknic have to say about that?

[shinny]

Thanks for the comments.

I wasn't convinced you were keeping to the speed limit.

I would have preferred to see more of the clip leading up, rather than afterwards. Was your speed an issue?

The reason there's not more of the lead-up is due to how the camera breaks up the recording into 1minute chunks - I would have needed video editing software to stitch it all back together which I didn't have available when I uploaded.

The background was that myself and the white van I'd just passed had both joined the road at the previous slip road, so I had accelerated up to the speed limit, moving to the clear right hand lane to do so. I had not been cruising down the road over the speed limit, although the line of traffic in the other lane was travelling below the limit, hence I was starting to pass them.

I guess in fairness to the BMW, there had been nothing behind it on the road 30s previously, although that doesn't excuse its complete failure to check its mirrors for passing traffic or indicate its intentions. Neither of those things are under my control, however, so they're irrelevant to me learning how to improving my own response.

Nice use of the horn of remonstration, by the way.

I'm a little embarrassed I got on the horn, I must admit. By the time the cars were overlapping, I was hard on the brakes but the BMW was still moving over on me so I felt I needed to make my presence known. The wide angle lens is great for capturing everything, but makes things seem further away than they actually were.

Not saying I would have necessarily done much better but yes, if I anticipate that someone might move into my lane, I don't rely on my presence deterring them. There is a difference between paranoia and being cautious.

Could have been a bit earlier, as soon as the BMW started to move rightwards.

I think this is probably what I need to take away here - as the BMW started drifting across I think I was still expecting to be seen when I should have reacted to what was starting to happen.

[michael769]

While it is clear that the BMW chose to pull out when it was not safe to do so, I suspect that he did this in an attempt to "help" the emerging vehicles, I am always wary of committing to an overtake in such circumstances as the vehicle in lane 1 may be so intent on the emerging vehicles as to lose track of what is behind. I prefer to adjust my position to arrive after the junction if road and traffic conditions permit - sometime I don't succeed in being so restrained.

I felt that I noticed his intention a little in advance of his move, and perhaps somewhat sooner that you did. Overall I felt like you were a little slow to react to the developing situation, given you mention that you had considered the possibility of him moving out.

The horn use was too late to be of any use - albiet perhaps understandable.

I won't comment on the issue of speed because I know from experience that these cameras are quite misleading and often make the car look like it is going faster that reality.

I think this is probably what I need to take away here - as the BMW started drifting across I think I was still expecting to be seen when I should have reacted to what was starting to happen.

Indeed. Your were in effect expecting a total stranger who you have never met to behave in a manner that met your personal beliefs and expectations - but who know what was actually going on in their head?

[shinny]

Indeed. Your were in effect expecting a total stranger who you have never met to behave in a manner that met your personal beliefs and expectations - but who know what was actually going on in their head?

Who knows indeed! I put myself in their car and knew I'd be looking to change lane to "help" the emerging traffic, but I would have also checked mirrors and blindspot to ensure it's safe. As you say, the error is assuming the other driver would do the same. Given no contact was made it was thankfully just a learning experience for both drivers...

I won't comment on the issue of speed because I know from experience that these cameras are quite misleading and often make the car look like it is going faster that reality.

I do often look at footage that I know is at 30mph and think it looks significantly faster. Despite nuances like that, dash cameras are great just in case something does happen - my friends on another forum have posted up videos of cars jumping red lights at 50mph, deers running out into the road and nutters swerving at speed through congested traffic; luckily none turned into an incident, but if they had then the video evidence would be invaluable!

[MGF]

When I am in an outer lane passing slower traffic nearside I try to think in terms of carrying out a series of individual overtakes that I have to commit to rather than simply passing traffic that is travelling slower and keeping an eye out for potential problems. This sharpens my anticipation and I find I am less likely to be caught out.

[Gareth]

When I am in an outer lane passing slower traffic nearside I try to think in terms of carrying out a series of individual overtakes

That's a very good way of thinking about it.

[hir]

I think we may be being a little too harsh on the OP with regard to lack of anticipation. I don't think the driver of the white car was pulling out to give space to the truck in the junction. As he passed the junction the truck was stationary at the give way line - it hadn't pulled out into the path of the white car. I think the driver of the white car simply changed lanes because HE/SHE wanted to, regardless of anyone else - I don't think he was considering anybody - neither the truck driver nor the OP.

However, having said all that, I have got in to the habit on multi-lane roads of monitoring the distance between the overtakee's wheels/tyres and the white lane divide lines. This will give a very early indication of the overtakee's intention of crossing that line and moving in to your lane. In the clip I would suggest that this move gave early indication of the white car driver's intention to move into the OP's lane but, the move was very sudden and I think the OP reacted well in the circumstances [apart from using the horn as an admonishment of course!] But, hell, why not let the other (BMW was it?!) driver know that he/she has been an idiot. If the OP doesn't tell them that they aren't the only driver on the road and the roads don't exist just for them to drive willy nilly wherever they wish regardless of other road users and without looking in their mirrors, who will? Otherwise they will be forever oblivious to their appalling driving.

[drm567]

shinny, can you give us details of the dashcam please? I've been thinking of fitting them myself and yours seems to give quite good quality video.

Edit, just seen the topic in General Chat.

David

[shinny]

shinny, can you give us details of the dashcam please? I've been thinking of fitting them myself and yours seems to give quite good quality video.

Edit, just seen the topic in General Chat.

David

The footage came from this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0658543072

I've since also bought this almost identical camera for my mid-engined toy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251198040852
(Despite the picture of a waterproof rear camera, the chunkier non-waterproof style was shipped just like the first auction and the Chinese seller couldn't offer the waterproof camera instead, which was a little frustrating)

it seems this was discussed a couple of weeks ago and the same camera was mentioned then too: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4126

[ROG]

I have a question ...

Was it your intention to be at the side of the BMW at exactly the same time as you both were going past the on slip ?

[shinny]

I have a question ...

Was it your intention to be at the side of the BMW at exactly the same time as you both were going past the on slip ?

My intention was to make progress by travelling at the speed limit in the clear lane infront of me. Given the yellow van was stationary, whether I was alongside the white BMW or not seemed irrelevant. Clearly I am now rethinking that, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered swallowing my pride and asking any questions here.

To have not been side-by-side with the white car as we reached the on slip would have involved changing my speed. In a theoretical world and with the benefit of hindsight I can see that was an action I could have taken to prevent the entire situation arising. But in practice would most advanced drivers actually have actually done that as part of their normal daily driving? (Genuine question!)

[michael769]

In a theoretical world and with the benefit of hindsight I can see that was an action I could have taken to prevent the entire situation arising. But in practice would most advanced drivers actually have actually done that as part of their normal daily driving? (Genuine question!)

I cannot speak for "most" but I certainly do (or at least try very hard to ). I am always conscious that speed (up and down) is a tool that can be used to modify my position with respect to other vehicles and hazards, like any suitable tool it is there to be used when appropriate.

I think that many drivers are like me in that when making progress we feel a strong compulsion to maintain our chosen speed and can easily fall into the trap of resenting anything/anyone that prevents us doing so. This is IMO a negative thought pattern that leads to poor decision making and it is one that I have to work hard at to avoid falling into its clutches.