IAM Masters v RoSPA

[waremark]

An interesting question. Can any subjective assessment be fair?

When members of the IAM forum met IAM examiners and head office staff recently we were told that the staff examiners who conduct Masters tests had all taken the test with fellow staff examiners, and have agreed criteria among themselves. I am sure this will not have been able to eliminate all subjectivity or inconsistency but it seems a reasonable effort to minimise it.

[daz6215]

If the test is as pedantic as it sounds based on what sounds like an opinion, then there must be a certain amount of subjectivity with regard to who gets a distinction and who doesn't!

[waremark]

If the test is as pedantic as it sounds based on what sounds like an opinion, then there must be a certain amount of subjectivity with regard to who gets a distinction and who doesn't!

I have already mentioned some steps which have been taken to minimise subjectivity, and I know that the Staff Examiners have written guidelines on the expectations for Masters. As it happens,the more pedantic the marking the less subjective judgement is probably required on the quality of the drive. What further steps do you suggest could reasonably be taken to minimise subjectivity? If there is as I believe a remaining element of subjectivity does it matter? The key issue is that good drivers are being encouraged to work towards being excellent drivers.

My mentor tells me that three candidates in a row whom he has mentored have achieved a distinction - pretty impressive.

[vonhosen]

If the test is as pedantic as it sounds based on what sounds like an opinion, then there must be a certain amount of subjectivity with regard to who gets a distinction and who doesn't!

I have already mentioned some steps which have been taken to minimise subjectivity, and I know that the Staff Examiners have written guidelines on the expectations for Masters. As it happens,the more pedantic the marking the less subjective judgement is probably required on the quality of the drive. What further steps do you suggest could reasonably be taken to minimise subjectivity? If there is as I believe a remaining element of subjectivity does it matter? The key issue is that good drivers are being encouraged to work towards being excellent drivers.

My mentor tells me that three candidates in a row whom he has mentored have achieved a distinction - pretty impressive.

Are the guidelines available to those taking the tests or just kept between the Staff examiners?
Does it say in them that he should specifically be marked down for the reasons he was on test?
It may be that good drivers are being discouraged from working towards being excellent drivers. How large is the take up for masters amongst IAM membership?

[daz6215]

It depends if being pedantic is an opinion, if you had points taken off for some of the reasons mentioned and were told you had narrowly missed out on a distinction because of it would that be a fair assessment?

[waremark]

It may be that good drivers are being discouraged from working towards being excellent drivers. How large is the take up for masters amongst IAM membership?

Anecdotally reported by IAM HO staff to be tremendously successful, with many times the take-up of the predecessor 'Special Assessment'.

The main guideline is that it must be a drive in accordance with Roadcraft. The documentation refers, among other excellent aspirations, to 'Applying the system of vehicle control in a timely, developed and accurate manner'.

VH, while you reject stylised guidelines you must bear in mind that the target market here is existing IAM members, and in most cases probably Observers and Senior Observers - most are therefore probably comfortable with the IAM's stylised guidelines.

[vonhosen]

It may be that good drivers are being discouraged from working towards being excellent drivers. How large is the take up for masters amongst IAM membership?

Anecdotally reported by IAM HO staff to be tremendously successful, with many times the take-up of the predecessor 'Special Assessment'.

What percentage of the membership is that?
(After all even a 200% increase on a very small number would still be a very small number)
Shouldn't the aim be that the vast majority of good IAM drivers would want to be excellent drivers?

The main guideline is that it must be a drive in accordance with Roadcraft. The documentation refers, among other excellent aspirations, to 'Applying the system of vehicle control in a timely, developed and accurate manner'.

What does roadcraft say about the things he was criticised for?
( ie Such as cleaning the windscreen when he did & things he didn't mention in his commentary)

VH, while you reject stylised guidelines you must bear in mind that the target market here is existing IAM members, and in most cases probably Observers and Senior Observers - most are therefore probably comfortable with the IAM's stylised guidelines.

Do guidelines actually exist for him to read in relation to what he was marked down for & outlining that he would be if he exhibited that specific behaviour?

[martine]

It may be that good drivers are being discouraged from working towards being excellent drivers. How large is the take up for masters amongst IAM membership?

Anecdotally reported by IAM HO staff to be tremendously successful, with many times the take-up of the predecessor 'Special Assessment'.

What percentage of the membership is that?

0.002% according to my calculations.

[waremark]

Anecdotally reported by IAM HO staff to be tremendously successful, with many times the take-up of the predecessor 'Special Assessment'.

What percentage of the membership is that?

0.002% according to my calculations.

Is that based on your certificate number? How many people have passed?

If it is about 200 (is that a correct interpretation of your figures?) even that is an achievement. Almost certainly there are quite a few more working on it at the moment, and then there will be some who improved their driving but failed to achieve Masters.

I would suggest that the vast proportion of IAM members have no interest in improving their driving beyond where they reached for the IAM test. When I was on the committee of my local group, we used to try to encourage members to refresh their driving by taking a session with an Observer, a Driving Assessment with an Examiner, or the Special Assessment. Within my group there was, I don't think it is an exaggeration to say, zero response. So as I say any successful promotion of further driving development is a worthwhile advance.

[vonhosen]

I would suggest that the vast proportion of IAM members have no interest in improving their driving beyond where they reached for the IAM test.

Why did they join the IAM?
If it was to be a better driver, what has discouraged them from continuing that task?
If it was to collect badges, what is discouraging them from continuing that task?

[waremark]

I would suggest that the vast proportion of IAM members have no interest in improving their driving beyond where they reached for the IAM test.

Why did they join the IAM?
If it was to be a better driver, what has discouraged them from continuing that task?
If it was to collect badges, what is discouraging them from continuing that task?

Why don't you join a local group, and investigate these things at first hand?

[vonhosen]

I would suggest that the vast proportion of IAM members have no interest in improving their driving beyond where they reached for the IAM test.

Why did they join the IAM?
If it was to be a better driver, what has discouraged them from continuing that task?
If it was to collect badges, what is discouraging them from continuing that task?

Why don't you join a local group, and investigate these things at first hand?

Because I'm not hearing anything that would tempt me to spend it with an IAM group instead of the people who I do ride/drive with in my spare time.

[hir]

My mentor tells me that three candidates in a row whom he has mentored have achieved a distinction - pretty impressive.

And, I have no doubt, so will his fourth!

[martine]

...instead of the people who I do ride/drive with in my spare time.

So who's that then?

[vonhosen]

...instead of the people who I do ride/drive with in my spare time.

So who's that then?

A group of friends & acquaintances who have an interest in & obtain enjoyment from riding/driving who are not a formal club.