IAM Masters v RoSPA

[jcochrane]

We'll done Graham on the Distinction. I would agree wth your comparison assessment.

[fungus]

Well done Graham.

[martine]

Indeed but I wonder if there comes a time to cease taken examinations and rely on the knowledge you have accrued; and keeping up to date by reading.

Ahh yes I see what you mean...cease taking tests may be - but continued self-analysis and coaching from others should perhaps be never-ending.

[Horse]

Indeed but I wonder if there comes a time to cease taken examinations and rely on the knowledge you have accrued; and keeping up to date by reading.

Ahh yes I see what you mean...cease taking tests may be - but continued self-analysis and coaching from others should perhaps be never-ending.

While sat in a queue on the M4 this morning, I was wondering who maintains the standards of the HPC gatekeepers, and what process is in place to select and train their replacements?

[Being cheery (it's my job to be a professional pessimist), if both gatekeepers are out for a drive, and a plane crashes on them, who will take over?]


On the M27


Yes, that's a Transit van, on the A40

[JamesAllport]

While sat in a queue on the M4 this morning, I was wondering who maintains the standards of the HPC gatekeepers, and what process is in place to select and train their replacements?

This is in no way an official HPC answer, but I think it goes as follows...

Both Clive & Andy (the current gatekeepers) were well known to the Club before they became gatekeepers. HPC members had been driving with them on events, and going to them for coaching, formally and informally, for about a decade before they became gatekeepers. So they were a natural fit in that they combined a deep and current expertise with a good feel for the culture, style, values and standards of the Club. Both are recognised by peers in the police driving instructor community as being right at the top of their game, as drivers and coaches. And they had demonstrated consistently that they could apply that police expertise to coach civillians in some very diverse cars, whose objectives are very different to police training.

Both still coach part-time at police driving schools at advanced and instructor level. I think Andy still trains instructors for cars and bikes, and benchmarks other instructor-trainers on bikes. I know Clive still trains new car instructors and I think he also does occasional bike courses. So I imagine that keeps them pretty sharp.

James

[revian]

I try not to do envy .... Well done Graham!

Ian

[daz6215]

So what is the difference between RoSPA Gold and the Masters? What makes it a higher standard? Could you contrast the two of them please?

[waremark]

While sat in a queue on the M4 this morning, I was wondering who maintains the standards of the HPC gatekeepers, and what process is in place to select and train their replacements?

This is in no way an official HPC answer, but I think it goes as follows...


James

I offer a complementary non official HPC answer. The club has a standards committee of very experienced members well respected by other members. It would be the responsibility of this committee. These experienced and respected members and other similarly respected members regularly drive both with the gatekeepers and with newly admitted members. Future gatekeepers would be likely already to be well known to club members. These sorts of processes which are powerful and effective are practical in an organization the size of HPC but would not be suitable in an organization the size of the IAM.

[martine]

So what is the difference between RoSPA Gold and the Masters? What makes it a higher standard? Could you contrast the two of them please?

My understanding is the expectation of Masters drive is higher and the marking less forgiving of even the smallest error or omission. I lost marks for missing 1 overtake. The drive is 90 mins and commentary is expected for most of it. There are Roadcraft and detailed Highway Code questions. You are expected to have excellent knowledge of your vehicle, comprehensive POWDEREY (yes I thought it was POWDERY too), Cockpit and Shutdown drills and show immaculate implementation of 'The System' with greatly extended observation and excellent anticipation.

To put my comments in perspective I've done Masters but not taken ROSPA. Our IAM Staff examiner examines both and he is quite clear that a good Masters mark is above what would gain ROSPA Gold.

[jcochrane]

An examiner for both bodies described the standard of Masters as a drive he would expect to see from an advanced police driver without exceeding speed limits. As martine has said any fault seen, even if only once, results in a deduction in the marking.

[waremark]

Save me looking it up. What changes POWDER to POWDEREY?

[martine]

Save me looking it up. What changes POWDER to POWDEREY?

Petrol
Oil
Water
Damage
Electrics
Rubber
Environment (as in road, traffic, weather)
Yourself (as in tired, emotional, alchohol, drugs - prescription or 'recreational')

[graham25]

My thanks to all who posted a reply to original comment on the IAM Masters V RoSPA Gold. I think Maritine from Bristol has the answer to this when he says that the scoring on the Masters test is less forgiving than other tests in that the slightest deviation from a top level drive can affect your score. Here are some examples that could lower your score:

A missed opportunity to overtake.
Taking up the following position when it should have been the contact position ready for an overtake.
Slight hesitation to move out of a roundabout (most 'normal' people wouldn't notice this)
Not taking the lane of least resistance on a dual carriageway/motorway.
Failing to adjust vehicle position in lane (place of safety) with an HGV coming towards in opposite direction.

Inadequate commentary. I opted to use the driving commentary for most of the drive but even for the most experienced advanced driver a high level commentary for nearly two hours is very demanding. It's all about practise, practise, and more practise. It must flow without any fumbling around for the right words. In a congested area it is essential that you call the priorities and then hope the examiner agrees with your selection.

Someone asked me who my examiner was but I'm not sure I should give this info in open forum. If anyone would like to know this or exchange more info on the test please feel free to PM me.

Although I got a good result (distinction) I'll leave you with a couple of things that happened to me on test which if they hadn't happened may well have increased my score. I was on a single carriage way driving at 60mph, the windscreen was covered in spray so I pressed my windscreen washer to clear the screen. The examiner commented that I could have chosen a safer place to do it and waited for a gap in the opposing traffic rather than doing it with an HGV coming towards in the opposite direction. Fair comment I suppose but how many of us would consider this? May be you would but I didn't?

I was on a country road and in full commentary and noticed a parked car which I called and then added that there is no footway so I'm looking for pedestrians. The examiner said 'anything else' and then suggested I should also be looking specifically for dog walkers from the parked car. Again fair comment and an example of where the commentary must cover everything.

I could go on but I'll leave it there.

[Horse]

I was on a single carriage way driving at 60mph, the windscreen was covered in spray so I pressed my windscreen washer to clear the screen. The examiner commented that I could have chosen a safer place to do it and waited for a gap in the opposing traffic rather than doing it with an HGV coming towards in the opposite direction.

I often put the wipers on before encountering an oncoming HGV (or on the bike, duck behind the screen) if I reasonably expect additional spray in its wake.

[martine]

Crikey Graham your 2 examples do seem to be very detailed criticisms and I would be surprised if it affected your score...I hate to think what my score would have been with such an examiner. I also got distinction - perhaps we should swop examiners and do it again!