Overtaking - just for the police?

[Gareth]

I wonder if we are reaching a point where overtaking is seen as acceptable only when carried out by the emergency services on a blue light run.

Going back some years, powerful cars could travel substantially faster than average cars. At one time, de-restricted meant something. The world has changed. These days, fairly mundane cars can easily travel at high speeds, making over-taking within the speed limit much harder.

I would be interested if the police drivers here are willing to share their thoughts about this. In particular and in general, do they think it is appropriate to overtake other vehicles when not on police business?

[vonhosen]

I wonder if we are reaching a point where overtaking is seen as acceptable only when carried out by the emergency services on a blue light run.

Going back some years, powerful cars could travel substantially faster than average cars. At one time, de-restricted meant something. The world has changed. These days, fairly mundane cars can easily travel at high speeds, making over-taking within the speed limit much harder.

I would be interested if the police drivers here are willing to share their thoughts about this. In particular and in general, do they think it is appropriate to overtake other vehicles when not on police business?

For the sake of your licence you should only overtake a vehicle that is traveling sufficiently below the limit, for you to overtake whilst remaining within it.

The vast majority have no idea how to overtake safely & properly, it's a skill that is just not taught.

It does certainly appear that the road engineering & camera placement is removing overtaking opportunities by design on SC roads.

[899cc]

I actually (mostly) disagree with what the OP said. Although overtaking oppourtunities can be rare, they do come up sometimes. I find that the only time I need to overtake (on single carriadgeways) is generally either when there is a lorry on an NSL doing 40mph, or there is another vehicle driving so slowly that they shouldn't really be on the roads. The majority of drivers tend to drive like idiots anyway, and overtaking (at the wrong time) just adds to the danger.

During my IAM test I overtook a car on a single carriadgeway road, and the examiner thought I did the right thing. My car is also one of the slowest on the roads, which makes it more difficult. For me, it's not the speeds of the cars that is the problem, it's the speed at which the driver chooses to drive.

New road designs do seem to be making difficult to overtake, which can cause road rage* . We have roads on bus routes littered with 'keep left' bollards etc., and they seem to be strategyly placed right where the bus stops, so the traffic has no choice but to stop, although there probably would be enough room for three lanes of cars if the bollards were not there.

The original post is a little unclear as to whether it's just police drivers, or all drivers he's talking about .

*Road rage is a bit of a soar spot for me at the moment. I've recently had somebody trying to cause an accident, and then threatening to break my neck . Most of the road rage I recieve is started from driving at slow speeds, in this case I was in a stream of traffic that had an HGV at the front.

[Nigel]

From someone who coaches people to advanced test standard........

I'll be dam lucky if we can get one overtake in on an sc during a course.

Double whites and scameras springing up everywhere.

[James]

Getting back to the thread, Overtaking is one skill that can be used anyone. Of course, doing it correctly is one that is rarely done.

Police Drivers > Civilian Drivers - THE SYSTEM IS THE SAME....

BUT

Civilian drivers will be caught in steady streams of traffic, looking for gaps, hazards etc. The scenario will remain fairly constant.

Police drivers will do the same BUT with warning equipment those gaps and oppurtunities open up very quickly DURING a planned overtake, where the warning equipment has gained a reaction from those in front. Often, offside positioning on a straight road on blues etc can cause a car on the other side of the road a LONG way away to react, and this gives further oppurtunity to continue progress and look for the next reaction, so long as it is safe. On emergency driving you can literally mimic a great NSL overtake on 30 mph roads, but ONLY because others are giving way and giving you stop over gaps.

Its very deep in trying to type it, but where as IPSGA ona one car overtake on NSL roads by a civilian driver wil occur (rarely), this IPSGA on emergency driving changes alot from each and every car you approach, and also those oncoming, not to mention cyclists and pedestrians and much more besides...

Policer drivers DO NOT have right of way but will use an oppurtunity, when it is given, to their and others SAFE advantage, as well as the few exemptions given to them.

[PeteG]

I very rarely get the chance to overtake... but driving something (as 899cc does too) relatively slow, like my 1.2 Corsa, gets you used to planning well ahead to ensure the safety of all involved.
As such, I usually adopt a following position just before a corner, get a good view, and (golden rule of the old Roadcraft, my observer tells me)... if safe, go. And if there's any doubt, there is no doubt... back off.

To paraphrase von for a moment...
Ignoring the posted limit entirely, take into account the speed that someone coming the other way could physically be doing as they enter your vision. Plan around what you can't see, as well as what you can.

[James]

Agreed - and a golden rule in police driver training -ALWAYS prepare for the fast one. No matter where you are, long road with a corner coming, traffic lights or exiting a corner - BE PREPARED for the emergency vehicle, the speeding bike or the drunken nutter approaching FAR too fast.

[TripleS]

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[James]

In a perfect world nobody speeds.

We do not live in a perfect world.

[Gareth]

The point I am trying to make is that because cars can go faster and a large number of drivers make use of that, coupled with the regulatory environment becoming more restrictive, the opportunities for overtaking while staying within the speed limits are becoming fewer and further between.

Learner drivers are generally not taught to overtake. In some instances those attempting the recognised advanced driving qualifications are being told that overtaking is not expected. There is very little information about overtaking in the most popular written guides for driver training.

A small number of drivers get angry at being overtaken. I suspect this is mainly because they don't like the idea of someone else travelling faster, although I've seen the odd oncoming driver who is angry even though they haven't needed to change their course or speed and their safety margin has not been compromised.

Some drivers, perhaps only a few, are unwilling to drive up to the posted limits in rural areas, because speed kills. The idea of what is socially acceptable is changing, perhaps as a result of the use of ill conceived safety campaigns in preference to additional driver training.

The number of people being taught a systematic approach to overtaking is extremely low, and the main place where this is done is in police training, where learning to overtake can be carried out while making use of an exemption to break the speed limits.

[Gareth]

In a perfect world nobody speeds.

I don't think I can adequately argue against this point without being thrown off the forum. For me, it encapsulates the whole nanny knows best point of view that I detest.

In a perfect world there would be no speed limits.

[TripleS]

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[TripleS]

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[JamesAllport]

I'm now thoroughly in the "heretic" category who refuse to compromise my safety by sticking doggedly to 30mph indicated if, by driving at 35mph indicated on a wide, open, hazard free suburban road with a good surface I can get the Fastard in his Volvo XC90 to drop back so that he isn't three feet from my boot. Yes, I know the Volvo driver needs educating about safe following distances, but I don't want to facilitate their education by dieing!

Equally I'm only prepared to overtake if I have the option to minimise my time exposed to danger by using all the performance of the car. I may choose to "float by" the slower car but I want the option to get on with it.

I'm struggling a bit at the moment with how that is compatible with continuing observe for IAM or RoADAR.

James

[PeteG]

Getting on with it is sadly becoming less of an option... on SC NSLs, most of the time, I'll drop into 3rd and floor it. That means I use the whole 49 neck-snapping bhp at my toetips...