Speed (but not speeding)

[899cc]

I've read a few posts here, and have read some interesting things about speed. Some have mentioned that when people have their first drive, speed is one of the first things that they notice.

I am an IAM member (past last year), and didn't think advanced driving was particularly fast. What I tend to find is that I can sometimes make more progress on some fast (safe) roads, but when I reach built up areas other people tend to drive too fast, and quite often above the speed limit. Even on the fast roads it is difficult to loose other cars because I we are restricted to 60mph (assuming single carriageway NSL), and the other cars usually aren't far off 60+mph. I find most drivers also tend to take sharp/blind bends far too fast. My pace tends to cause frustration to some of the idiots on the road. When doing the IAM I was only ever told that I was (slightly)too fast, but never too slow.

When these people comment on the speed is it because you are more advanced than IAM/RoSPA, is it police or HPC? Even then you should still be restricted by your view, and the performance of your vehicle. Or are these comments when you are legally exceeding 60/70mph, eg. on a race track?

[PeteG]

I notice not so much outright speed, but speed into hazards now... for example, roundabouts I'm used to being quicker into them, but then, say, parked vehicles, or a turn into a side road, I'm used to IPSG, it throws me when for example my mum goes with the overlap every time, simply because thats how she was taught many moons ago...

[SbT]

. A prime example is overtaking a vehicle in the NSL which is doing maybe 55 MPH. I want to be past with the least delay, especially if it's a long HGV.

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

SbT
IAM Member

[waremark]

An advanced driver will vary his pace according to the conditions more than a less good driver - very very slow where that is required in order to be able to stop for any hazard which can reasonably be anticipated, and promptly and positively up to the safe and permitted speed when the road opens up. I do not think ithis normally feels 'fast'. Both aspects - the slow enough to cope with hazards and the positive progress where safe - generally represent a change for my IAM associates. 'Progress', of course, also includes other aspects such as selection of position, line and lane.

I agree that less good drivers often go round bends too fast for the available vision. Where better drivers may gain is with more acceleration on the exit from bends and on bends with open vision.

IIn talking about 'fast', some forum members are referring to their experiences with the benefit of the police exemption, and others to their decisions to make their own judgements about safe speeds whether or not legal (generally in NSL zones).

[899cc]

. A prime example is overtaking a vehicle in the NSL which is doing maybe 55 MPH. I want to be past with the least delay, especially if it's a long HGV.

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

SbT
IAM Member

In which case I relinquish all claim to being an advanced driver. Should I return my IAM & RoADAR certificates? Incidentally, my RoADAR examiner, (who gave me Gold), commended me for a brisk overtake which involved a brief excursion to an indicated 70 MPH (66 true by satellite). This meant I was within ACPO guidelines, although I realise it was illegal. We're living in the real world, I hope.
Cheers, Chris.

We are driving in a real world... one with a laws, and speed limits. Views on speeding will vary between observer, and examiner, but there are certainly a lot who would mark you down for that.

[James]

. A prime example is overtaking a vehicle in the NSL which is doing maybe 55 MPH. I want to be past with the least delay, especially if it's a long HGV.

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

SbT
IAM Member

This depends on your institution's interpretation of advanced driving. It also depends heavily on the remit and purpose of your institution. There will be huge differences in flexibilty and technique between organisations.

For example, what the IAM may not permit, Rospa may encourage, and the police may expect as a minimum...

[Gareth]

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

Definitions of Advanced Driving vary. For some, one aspect is linking speed to vision, for others it is obeying traffic laws even when they don't make sense, and there is a whole spectrum of opinion between.

I think if you ask serving officers about their opinion of breaking some law or other, they will feel constrained to say in public that it is quite unacceptable, whatever opinion they hold in private.

[ScoobyChris]

I'm currently preparing for my test and raised this exact issue with my pre-test observer. Apparently some examiners expect you to overtake (and briefly exceed the posted speed limit) and some will stick to the letter of the law and it's a case of pre-announcing it in the commentary to judge their reactions before undertaking the manouevre.

In the real world, I tend to overtake where it is safe to do so but err on the side of caution where it is not

Chris

[waremark]

I'm currently preparing for my test and raised this exact issue with my pre-test observer. Apparently some examiners expect you to overtake (and briefly exceed the posted speed limit) and some will stick to the letter of the law and it's a case of pre-announcing it in the commentary to judge their reactions before undertaking the manouevre.

In the real world, I tend to overtake where it is safe to do so but err on the side of caution where it is not

Chris

I advise associates preparing for test to assume that their examiner would prefer them not to plan an overtake unless they expect to be able to complete it in safety without exceeding the limit. No examiner could criticise them for this approach, whereas some might criticise them for any other approach. Most people find that strict adherence to limits needs practise - while some of you consider this a waste of practising effort, my associates have always accepted it as part of preparing for the advanced test.

Sorry to offend some of you, but I go along with the distinction between real world and preparing for the test. In my real world, every examiner that I have met has some tolerance for exceeding the speed limit if done safely and diiscretely.

Re another posting, I do not believe there are any differences between the test requirements of IAM and Rospa. A number of examiners serve both. They have some discretion on the requirements they impose even in this 'DSA approved' era, with the occasional pronouncements of big-wigs in the organisations treated more as suggestions than rules. My local senior examiners for both organisations are quite flexible. And my Rospa Giold/Iam Special Assessment reports are almost identical. The requirements of RAC/BSM and Cardington may well be different, but David Wilkinson, authoratative contributor on other forums, takes pride in getting Gold, Platinum etc in all tests while driving in the same way!

[rlmr]

. A prime example is overtaking a vehicle in the NSL which is doing maybe 55 MPH. I want to be past with the least delay, especially if it's a long HGV.

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

SbT
IAM Member

OK better say something then .

As you would expect...

• The Party Line for IAM and Police...
  You should not exceed the speed limit as that breaks the law. IAM classify that as a fail in a test and the police give you a "ticket."
• The Commonsense approach from IAM and Police...
  You should not exceed the speed limit as that break the law. The IAM Examiner is/was a Traffic Cop and as such is human . Humans can apply common sense and judgement, whereas Cameras cannot. Without jeopardising one's beliefs or loyalty to either "employer" the human might be able to exercise some leeway in certain circumstances. *
• From the heart...
  I am human and have human weaknesses. I would be lying if I said I never overtook without marginally scraping over the NSL by the smallest amount imaginable .

Rennie
* should any of the IAM HQ staff read this post they must realise I am talking about circumstances which would not normally attract a speeding conviction or which fly in the face of a Road Safety organisation .

SbT... e-mail me if you want a better answer.

[BillZZR600]

. A prime example is overtaking a vehicle in the NSL which is doing maybe 55 MPH. I want to be past with the least delay, especially if it's a long HGV.

I think this would be unacceptable in 'Advanced Driving'. If you can't overtake without exceeding the speed limit, you shouldn't do the overtake.

It will be interesting to see replies from 'rlmr' and 'vonhosen'

SbT
IAM Member

OK better say something then .

As you would expect...

• The Party Line for IAM and Police...
  You should not exceed the speed limit as that breaks the law. IAM classify that as a fail in a test and the police give you a "ticket."
• The Commonsense approach from IAM and Police...
  You should not exceed the speed limit as that break the law. The IAM Examiner is/was a Traffic Cop and as such is human . Humans can apply common sense and judgement, whereas Cameras cannot. Without jeopardising one's beliefs or loyalty to either "employer" the human might be able to exercise some leeway in certain circumstances. *
• From the heart...
  I am human and have human weaknesses. I would be lying if I said I never overtook without marginally scraping over the NSL by the smallest amount imaginable .

Rennie
* should any of the IAM HQ staff read this post they must realise I am talking about circumstances which would not normally attract a speeding conviction or which fly in the face of a Road Safety organisation .

SbT... e-mail me if you want a better answer.

Real world sense and sensibilities