Why is Advanced Driving So Uncool?

[Silk]

I have a few theories, but I think I'll keep them to myself until I've seen what others have to say.

Anyone have any thoughts on this, or even solutions?

[Custom24]

Maybe it works like this.

Activities are either cool or uncool (or somewhere in between, but this is a simplistic analysis)
Activities are also either altruistic or ultimately pointless.

I can think of plenty of things which are cool, but ultimately pointless. I can also think of plenty of things which are uncool and altruistic. I can think of some things which are uncool and ultimately pointless, but only perverts like those things.

What I can't think of are many examples of things which are altruistic and at the same time cool.

[Gareth]

I think it's not seen as cool because the popular image is one of being 'good'. Cool doesn't ever slavishly follow rules.

If the popular image was one of fun in conjunction with driving 'well', as nearly all participants have found to be the case on the ADUK driving days and the HPC Young Drivers Days, then it would be seen as cool.

[Hiijinx]

Well after I joined the IAM, I found out that my Mother had thought it was exclusively for older people who had been driving for XXX many years and wear white driving gloves in open top 1920's cars - and thats just one outside impression.

This is not helped with advertising shower seats and mobility aids in the IAM newsletters.
They REALLY aren't in tune with todays youth so shall remain "uncool" in that area.

Not to mention driving shows of late which hint to Advanced Driving lessons being something that you only need if your driving is of poor standard, which, no one will admit to as "everyone's" a brilliant driver.

There was a post here recently about what made a "good" driver and I have to agree on it and think it applies to most subjects in that its the attitude of the individual which makes or breaks it. You are either open to learning and improving on knowledge, or you believe you are gods gift and know it all already.

And to sum up how I feel "normal" drivers see us - I think Homer tells it best. (Just substitute black men for "normal driver" and white men for Advanced - or in real life terms, the a$$ in the vectra with the baby on board sign behind me with one hand at 12 0clock and the other to his/her ear on the phone)

[Custom24]

To expand my earlier post.

What characteristics does Advanced Driving have? At least mainstream IAM/Rospa?

It's "good" as Gareth put it, or altruistic, or worthy
It's safe
It conforms to the rules
It's strongly linked to the Establishment (Roadcraft comes from the Police)
You pass a test, you get graded, you get a badge
It's Evangelical
It's largely run by volunteers
It's relatively inexpensive
It's traditional; it's not novel
It's aimed at the Everyman - anyone can do it
There is a focus on self-improvement
It's about doing something better that you have to do anyway

Now think about some other activities or areas of life which share some of the above characteristics. Are any of them cool? Why is there a difference?

Some that spring to my mind are;

First Aid organisations such as St John Ambulance. This is definitely not perceived as cool.

Recycling / saving the planet. This may sound odd, but in the early days, only hippies did this. Now it's gone past "cool" to mainstream. Particularly, it's cool among young people. Why? Because of education and a slow erosional change to people's attitudes.

I don't agree with Gareth that the solution is to necessarily to make Advanced Driving "fun". For me, the answer is about education.

If you want a flippant answer, Advanced Driving is not cool because Jeremy Clarkson says so.

[jameslb101]

The IAM is uncool. Most people don't know that there is more to AD than the IAM test - for many they are synonymous.

I think it's not seen as cool because the popular image is one of being 'good'. Cool doesn't ever slavishly follow rules.

Similarly, AD is about putting effort into something, focusing on the task in hand. Cool is niether of these things.

If you want a flippant answer, Advanced Driving is not cool because Jeremy Clarkson says so.

I'd say there's a lot truth in the importance of the part the media has to play in the image of AD.

Anyone have any thoughts on this, or even solutions?

I don't think there needs to be a solution, AD will never be a populist activity IMHO. It will always be self-selecting in that only those who want to learn will get involved, and most people don't want to learn about driving once they're passed their test. I think the most important thing is to raise the basic standard of driving for everyone, rather than just for the 1% who are keen. How that's done is subject for another thread, if this topic hasn't already been covered.

[Slink_Pink]

I think that some people, who reach as far as say, flicking through Roadcraft, may get put off by the system. As an engineer, the system was one of the more appealing aspects for me as it fits well with the logical, procedural, systematic approach that I've spent years learning and practicing in my daily life (I'd like to say just in my job, but the Mrs will tell you that's a lie!) But many people are put off by "processes", "systems", etc. Indeed I recall a quote along the lines of:

The most ingenious type of fool is one who has a system

As part of a presentations skills course at work, I once presented for 5 minutes or so to a group of my (at that time young) colleagues about the basics of AD. One of the feedback points I got was to introduce is as "would you like to drive like a police driver" i.e. trying to hook interest with the excitement of blue-light driving. As we all know this is somewhat different from the reality of AD it is still a possible selling angle for some groups of people.

My last point is that AD is pretty much a self improvement hobby. If you compare to advanced motorcycle training it's a different game with many (voluntary) organisations actually valuing the qualification. So, if you want to become involved with them it's a good reason to go out and improve. I can't say the same for driving roles.

[Gareth]

I have two further thoughts.

One I think TripleS will agree with is that advanced driving is needed by some of us because without the discipline we would be quite dangerous, whereas the vast majority of drivers seem to manage safely enough without it.

Another is that many young people see driving as cool, but we should ask what aspects of driving are seen as cool rather than considering the totality as an indivisible lump. I suspect the rebellious nature of some driving is seen in this light, which on the face of it is the antithesis of advanced driving as practised & explained by most exponents.

Following on from this, then, I think the main aspect of advanced driving that is cool is being able to get 'one up' on other motorists by using skill to not get held up, being able to overtake, taking less time to arrive at a destination, and so on.

[ScoobyChris]

If you want a flippant answer, Advanced Driving is not cool because Jeremy Clarkson says so.

But if he said it was cool, would that make it so? He said the 911 was uncool/seriously uncool, yet people still seem to queue up to buy them.

I think the problem is fundamentally that AD (IAM/RoSPA) isn't particularly cool/exciting to the average driver because it is safe and legal and uneventful. Unless you're able to appeal to the thrill-seeker, it will remain so.

Chris

[Silk]

If you want a flippant answer, Advanced Driving is not cool because Jeremy Clarkson says so.

I think there may be a certain element of truth in that, but Clarkson is really only an entertainer and journalist and makes his money out of appealing to the mainstream. If he was to come out and say Advanced Driving was cool, he'd immediately be uncool.

For many driving enthusiasts, driving sideways is the most skilful thing you can do in a car and Formula 1 represents the pinnacle of driving excellence.

Even though I disagree with him most of the time, I'm quite a fan of Clarkson. I watch him on the telly and have read most of his books. He's an immensely talented writer and broadcaster.

[WhoseGeneration]

Well, as I found out to my cost as regards membership of PistonHeads, it is definitely "uncool".
Then, we all drive old Jag saloons, pipe in mouth.
Trouble is, there's a subtext, that most here understand.
One which I now wish I had posted on PistonHeads to further explain my point.
That is, if you want to drive like a hooligan, with AD under your belt, you'll be a much safer hooligan.
At risk of much flaming, many ES drivers, I suspect if honest, would agree with that.

[Kimosabe]

Percentage of male IAM members over 50 vs under 30?

There is nothing in either Roadcraft or the IAMs own version of Roadcraft which I should not have been taught when taking my driving test in the mid '80s. The IAM have consistently strived to appeal to younger members while also consistently failing to do so. I'd say that this is because too many organisations such as the IAM, do not recognise that they are often behaving like a select hierarchical boys club, rather than a charity which is open to anyone who holds a uk driving license. Lose the self-induced pedantry and start from there. You know the sound of an archetypal police hossifer's voice? The lingo used in place of normal, everyday parlance? Well it should come as no surprise that the archetypal sound of an IAM member is an adenoidal geek with few social graces.

(Sweeping generalisation switch to 'on')

Re number of under 30s vs over 50s. Though this may at first appear to be a simplistic comparison, the terms 'Cool' and 'uncool' are generally best left in the vocabularies of ageing hippies and under 30s. This being the case, I would suggest that most IAM members are over 50 which thus renders them generally uncool and if that age group are trying to blend with those half their age, the question would be 'why'? If the answer is to gain greater social acceptance, I can think of other ways of doing it which don't include the optimum mechanics of the 10-2, the pull-push, formulating general driving into IPSGA followed by the patronising assumptions that anything different is not driving..... That's how cults work! Black and white thinking supported by dogmatic adherence to what the RTA says. I've met Traffic Officers who are more relaxed about the RTA, HC etc than most IAM members I've met.

What the IAM, Masonic lodges etc have in common, is their desire to lower their average age and change their gender balance. What they also have in common is their inability to do so. Your average under 25 with a spare £135 (sfl price?) would be unlikely to spend it on a driving course which will barely affect their ridiculously high insurance premiums or lodge subs which will allow them to hang out with an interesting, male social circle which their mates won't 'get'.

I dunno. I wish the IAM didn't have the pall of stuffy driving geeks, or call it what you will, hanging over them but they do and the reason for it is because that's what they were and to a certain extent still are. Shame really as I'd like to see the IAM being far more mainstream.

[WhoseGeneration]

[quote="Kimosabe"] Much of truth and relevance.
[quote]

You're not wrong but you have to consider how this stuff works, in that few want to consider that their way is open to challenge and modification.
I could witter on but won't.

[martine]

Kimosabe: You might be surprised if I told you we have a good proportion of under 25s doing our 'Skill for Life' (SfL) courses. At our last one which started on Wednesday, out of the 9 associates I would say 100% were under 30 with the majority being under 25. We usually have 15 plus on each course. Wed's course were all male but we do normally get a good mix of male/female (prob. 1/3 female).

What we are not so good at is keeping the young'uns as members once they've passed. As a consequence the average age of our group membership is probably 50+. Some say it's not worth worrying about as regardless of whether they stick around, we've achieved our primary mission of improving people's driving. Others say they don't join because young people lead busy lives and joining clubs of any sort is low on their priorities.

It is true to say we get a fair number of middle-aged associates who do continue with their membership, some train as observers and/or join our committee. I guess it's partly the confidence that comes with age and perhaps wanting to give something back to the group and 'society'.

The IAM Skills days and the new IAM modules are a perhaps good way of refreshing the image of boring old farts with boring old advanced driving courses. Time will tell but it's not going to happen quickly that's for sure.

[Slink_Pink]

What we are not so good at is keeping the young'uns as members once they've passed...perhaps wanting to give something back to the group and 'society'...

As I mentioned, other than this and perhaps an idea of self improvement based on continual involvement there is little else to attract people to stay. I still try to attend group meetings but am frequently frustrated by the amount of disorganisation that exists and the fact that everything is done by committee and therefore takes an excessive period of time (could just be my group though).