Why is Advanced Driving So Uncool?

[MrToad]

The Bristol newsletter thing rumbled on into the November issue (p35) where the alternative view was expressed and a semblance of balance restored.

[ScoobyChris]

Is a well-executed, well-presented demo drive likely to make a positive impression on an uninitiated driver who at least likes driving? Probably.

I think this comes down to perception of well-executed. For example, if I start with a cockpit drill, drive safely and legally with a running commentary (Clarkson adenoid voice optional ), pull/push throughout, and then end with a shutdown drill, I'll have delivered a "perfect" RoSPA Gold drive but is that going to make a positive impression on a younger audience or scare them away?

I think this is what is so appealing about ADUK days where there is no set syllabus, people of all backgrounds are welcome and the main aim of the day is to have fun in a friendly and informal environment with the added bonus that you might learn something. I only know of one person who came to a day (embarrassingly, one of mine ) and left early because he wasn't enjoying it. Others with no AD background have come and been inspired by what they've seen and wanted to improve, only to be "deflated" by the local IAM/RoSPA groups and given up.

Chris

[trashbat]

Is a well-executed, well-presented demo drive likely to make a positive impression on an uninitiated driver who at least likes driving? Probably.

I think this comes down to perception of well-executed. For example, if I start with a cockpit drill, drive safely and legally with a running commentary (Clarkson adenoid voice optional ), pull/push throughout, and then end with a shutdown drill, I'll have delivered a "perfect" RoSPA Gold drive but is that going to make a positive impression on a younger audience or scare them away?

That's what I'm hinting at with 'well presented'. In many ways it's a question of PR.

Let's say you take them out in a car not unlike their own, so they can't attribute the results to the vehicle. No cockpit drills, just an introduction to your combined aims. You choose a route through a flowing, bendy B road, where legal compliance is mostly enforced by the conditions rather than your own choices. You prioritise progress and making it look effortless.

You implement The System but don't talk about it, or any of the habit-changing detail. You do talk about things like 'slow in, fast out', like extending observation, like balance and preparation. You might do a selective commentary but it's to emphasise the results - we picked the right gear so we have more power on tap exiting this bend. The road straightens so let's go, go, go!

You hint at the fact that there is significant technique going on behind the curtain, and that they'll need to work to get there, but today is about demonstrating the end result.

All that you've done is a good standard drive, without really compromising on any fundamentals. You've just packaged it in a way that publicises the bits of relevance to [what they think are] their aims.

If they come away engaged, with an opinion of 'today I got shown some good (cool?) fast road driving by someone experienced', you've at least built up some capital to spend on the details.

Of course there's the danger that you engender confidence in their own abilities to do the same where none is due. I don't have a good answer to that.

I think this is what is so appealing about ADUK days where there is no set syllabus, people of all backgrounds are welcome and the main aim of the day is to have fun in a friendly and informal environment with the added bonus that you might learn something. I only know of one person who came to a day (embarrassingly, one of mine ) and left early because he wasn't enjoying it. Others with no AD background have come and been inspired by what they've seen and wanted to improve, only to be "deflated" by the local IAM/RoSPA groups and given up.

Chris

Agreed, but a bit like the IAM, it's largely preaching to the converted.

[Gareth]

I think this is what is so appealing about ADUK days [...] Others with no AD background have come and been inspired by what they've seen and wanted to improve ...

Agreed, but a bit like the IAM, it's largely preaching to the converted.

I've selectively edited Chris' comment to point out that anybody who comes to an ADUK and then wants to take their driving further is pointed towards their local IAM and RoADAR groups, sometimes with the suggestion they treat it as a stage in their learning (a discipline) that is useful before going further. In this I think it is not very much like preaching to the converted, and only becomes so for repeat attendees.

[jont]

Let's say you take them out in a car not unlike their own, so they can't attribute the results to the vehicle. No cockpit drills, just an introduction to your combined aims. You choose a route through a flowing, bendy B road, where legal compliance is mostly enforced by the conditions rather than your own choices. You prioritise progress and making it look effortless.

You implement The System but don't talk about it, or any of the habit-changing detail. You do talk about things like 'slow in, fast out', like extending observation, like balance and preparation. You might do a selective commentary but it's to emphasise the results - we picked the right gear so we have more power on tap exiting this bend. The road straightens so let's go, go, go!

You hint at the fact that there is significant technique going on behind the curtain, and that they'll need to work to get there, but today is about demonstrating the end result.

All that you've done is a good standard drive, without really compromising on any fundamentals. You've just packaged it in a way that publicises the bits of relevance to [what they think are] their aims.

Funnily enough, my advanced driving epiphany was much like that. I had a demo drive at the first HPC young drivers day from someone who is a member on here and several things jumped out.
They covered the ground at a similar rate to me, although their speed in hazards was probably lower and between them possibly higher.
Their work rate was incredibly low. Nothing was ever rushed, so it didn't feel like they were actually trying to make progress - it was only afterwards you realise how effectively you covered the ground.
As a passenger it was hard to maintain attention to what the driver was doing - because the low work rate style meant for a very smooth and flowing drive - so it was easy to relax rather than worry about what the driver was missing/doing wrong.
Because of the smoothness, anticipation and space around them it had significantly higher safety margins than my typical drive.

[trashbat]

I think this is what is so appealing about ADUK days [...] Others with no AD background have come and been inspired by what they've seen and wanted to improve ...

Agreed, but a bit like the IAM, it's largely preaching to the converted.

I've selectively edited Chris' comment to point out that anybody who comes to an ADUK and then wants to take their driving further is pointed towards their local IAM and RoADAR groups, sometimes with the suggestion they treat it as a stage in their learning (a discipline) that is useful before going further. In this I think it is not very much like preaching to the converted, and only becomes so for repeat attendees.

How did they discover ADUK in the first place? That's what I'm referring to - they've already partially accepted that AD is something that might work for them, so the question of whether it's 'cool' is already of reduced importance. Not entirely, I grant you, but they've climbed over some of the barriers to entry by themselves at that point.

[ScoobyChris]

How did they discover ADUK in the first place? That's what I'm referring to - they've already partially accepted that AD is something that might work for them, so the question of whether it's 'cool' is already of reduced importance. Not entirely, I grant you, but they've climbed over some of the barriers to entry by themselves at that point.

Most of the ones I invited were through running "taster" days and targetting car forums. I agree on your approach for the initial drive ... the problem comes after that though when they follow it by going to their local IAM/RoSPA group and the driving is somewhat different, unless they are lucky enough to get an observer who also happens to be a driving/car enthusiast.

Chris

[jont]

FWIW, I think AD is a very hard sell. I spend a lot of time on another forum full of driving enthusiasts, many of whom are keen track day goers and have spent a lot of time on limit handling. However advanced driving on the road is always brushed under the carpet. I push the value of road training whenever I get an excuse, and you get a few people quietly admitting they've done IAM/RoSPA or had a day with ride-drive etc (and enjoyed it! ), but never do you get the same enthusiasm that you do for track/limit handling days, never mind get newcomers interested enough to consider it.

It's a shame as whenever I've gone on a group drive it's obvious most of them would see significant benefit in even some basic roadcraft, but few are prepared to take the step of subjecting their own driving to examination by others.

[7db]

Of course there's the danger that you engender confidence in their own abilities to do the same where none is due.

Or our own, of course.

[7db]

You might do a selective commentary but it's to emphasise the results - we picked the right gear so we have more power on tap exiting this bend. The road straightens so let's go, go, go!

More commentary should be like this all the time. I find the rote stuff deadly dull. Which thing is going to kill us/it next? What are you doing about it? I really don't give too much of a stuff about the rest. The house is red, the bend is to the left, there's a great big HGV thundering along offside towards us.

[Gareth]

anybody who comes to an ADUK and then wants to take their driving further is pointed towards their local IAM and RoADAR groups, sometimes with the suggestion they treat it as a stage in their learning (a discipline) that is useful before going further.

How did they discover ADUK in the first place? That's what I'm referring to - they've already partially accepted that AD is something that might work for them

Maybe for some, but I think that some of the 'new' people taking part in ADUK days are there because someone else has told them it is a lot of fun and they might enjoy it, and not necessarily because they are already interested in advanced driving.

I see ADUK days as a hook to trap the unwary fun-loving driver ... and I think it works often enough even when people have been dragged along by family members or friends. On the other hand I don't worry too much about this aspect since, for me, ADUK days are mainly about me having fun

[jont]

Maybe for some, but I think that some of the 'new' people taking part in ADUK days are there because someone else has told them it is a lot of fun and they might enjoy it, and not necessarily because they are already interested in advanced driving.

I see ADUK days as a hook to trap the unwary fun-loving driver ...

And at which you've been quite successful

[Kimosabe]

I wish the IAM didn't have the pall of stuffy driving geeks, or call it what you will, hanging over them but they do and the reason for it is because that's what they were and to a certain extent still are. Shame really as I'd like to see the IAM being far more mainstream.

You clearly see yourself as outside the IAM. If you want the IAM to be different have you considered getting involved and trying to make a difference in your local group?

Gareth,

I neither see myself as a part of or outside of the IAM. Right now, I am simply a person who is trying to gain some improvement in my driving skills and I have chosen the IAM to help me to do so. In this sense, I am a consumer. I bought a course and i'm studying it for as long as I see value or improvement in what I'm doing. Whether or not that leads me further into 'advanced driving' or not depends a great deal on how I feel it has benefitted my driving abilities and how it affects those around me eg. other road users.

As for getting involved in my local group and changing the IAM by becoming a more active member, that may or may not happen. I'm generally not interested in wrangling with group politics and dynamics though I would like to meet anyone who could share their experience of driving with me. From what I've read on this forum alone, the IAM have some very enthused associate members who would like to see the organisation develop and who have some very useful ideas as to how that could be achieved. As I previously wrote, by becoming more mainstream, it will also become more acceptable and that will attract a more diverse demographic of members.

Sometimes you just have to take risks and that goes for organisations too. It's risks which attract attention, not blending into the scenery. Risks aren't the domain of the young and foolish, they are the only thing which separates new growth from set patterns. Let's all encourage this in the IAM.

As Mr Clarkson is prone to knocking the IAM, has the IAM thrown down the gauntlet and challenged him to a drive-off? Take any IAM member at random (who has passed the IAM test) and they should be able to outperform Clarky-boy in normal road driving. Of course, if the IAM only teach their associates Pull-Push, BGOL, not braking on corners, a strict adherence to keeping to the left of the centre lines etc etc etc, who would you say would win that challenge? Strictly to the letter of the RTA/HC of course and none of this 'in my day it meant derestricted' palarva and no Top Gear post-edited shenanigans. I'd be very interested to see this.

[fungus]

Of course, if the IAM only teach their associates Pull-Push, BGOL, not braking on corners, a strict adherence to keeping to the left of the centre lines etc etc etc,

Keeping left of centre lines is something I am at odds with with my group. Most of my group will not cross the centre line to off side, I do if safe, ie. no other road user can enter that space, and there is an advantage. This stance is taken by some with regards to hatched markings, but provided they are bordered by broken lines and it is safe, no offence has been committed. In fact one of our examiners who is ex Met traffic pol looks for candidates to off side if safe, or at least he used to.

[PeterE]

The ever-increasing prevalence of unrealistic speed limits has inevitably led to the IAM - and other advanced driving organisations - gaining the image of people who advocate slavish adherence to rules, however unreasonable. In 1956, being a "spirited" driver was entirely compatible with being an advanced driver. Now it isn't.