Test criteria IAM.

[jcochrane]

There are plenty of others to choose from and personally my first choice would not be either of these two.

Who would be your first choice and why?

In the past I have recommended Mark Kendrick, John Cave and John Lyon and would be happy to do so again. I would also strongly recommend Mark Robins.

That was my point but stefan einz claims the driving is not being assessed over two days. If that is the case then the course would have value in itself. Maintaining a standard over two days, or even one day is significantly more challenging than 90 minutes.

I'm not sure it is reasonable to split coaching from assessment since the coach is continually assessing the candidate throughout the course, identifying weaknesses and targeting coaching in response. Also, some aspects of driving may only become apparent after an extended time under intense pressure of the learning situation, such as the ability to maintain concentration, to always drive safely, to always drive within one's capabilities, to always display a courteous attitude to other road users, to be unerringly mechanically sympathetic to the vehicle, and so on.

The only problem that there might be for some is that many of the advanced professional instructors out there have links with HPC or are HPC members. Some even attend HPC holidays, like those in Scotland or Teesdale, and provide coaching for us. Not to mention that many also have racing connections.

[TripleS]

I do wish people would stop talking about stuff they have no idea about. It's pretty tiresome.

Cheers

Steve

Well that'd save me a good deal of typing.

[MGF]

...I'm not sure it is reasonable to split coaching from assessment since the coach is continually assessing the candidate throughout the course, identifying weaknesses and targeting coaching in response. Also, some aspects of driving may only become apparent after an extended time under intense pressure of the learning situation, such as the ability to maintain concentration, to always drive safely, to always drive within one's capabilities, to always display a courteous attitude to other road users, to be unerringly mechanically sympathetic to the vehicle, and so on.

I agree but the claim was that it only took an hour to assess the required standard. Prior to this I believed that the main benefit of the course - as an alternative to coaching split up over months or maybe even years - is the need to drive well for extended periods of time.


Looking at what my £250 might buy me it appears to be a choice between the IAM Masters programme, the best part of a day with a driving coach or a contribution to saving up for the HPC entry course. I'm thinking that the most productive use of that money is probably a day or half-day with a driving coach.

The current gatekeepers are known to HPC but appear to have no presence outside of the Club, hence they would not be my first choice.

[jont]

The current gatekeepers are known to HPC but appear to have no presence outside of the Club, hence they would not be my first choice.

One reason for that may be that private individual coaching is a fairly small fraction of their work and they don't really need to advertise to keep themselves busy.

[Gareth]

I agree but the claim was that it only took an hour to assess the required standard.

I would have said that it is a bit like how you know the state of someone's driving, in a very general sense, within the first few minutes of them starting to drive, but then that early assessment becomes modified as you spend more time watching what they do and how they do it.

On that basis it isn't unreasonable to think that the very experienced coaches who have been chosen to be gatekeepers would have a pretty good idea whether a candidate is likely to pass their course within an hour or so. That's not to say they would stop coaching at that point, since what they're selling is the coaching, and maybe their coaching will be sufficient to lift a seemingly borderline candidate to the point where they could be recommended for membership of the club.

Looking at what my £250 might buy me it appears to be a choice between the IAM Masters programme, the best part of a day with a driving coach or a contribution to saving up for the HPC entry course. I'm thinking that the most productive use of that money is probably a day or half-day with a driving coach.

I think I'd agree, unless you were exclusively interested in the IAM's view of advanced driving.

The current gatekeepers are known to HPC but appear to have no presence outside of the Club, hence they would not be my first choice.

In part not surprising because the bulk of their work is probably either with the police or commercial entities, so maybe coaching private individuals represents a small proportion of their income, (I don't know if this is so, btw). Neither appear to have their own website. Clive Jones has a LinkedIn page, and Andy Morrison appears to be better known in connection with motorcycle training.

I suppose a good question to ask is whether you'd like to spend your £250 with someone who has significant experience in training police drivers at the highest levels, such as the gatekeepers, or whether you would prefer to use a coach who doesn't have that experience but who may well bring something different to the experience.

I have the feeling that many IAM and RoADAR members would wet their pants for a chance to sit in a car driven by a Class 1, or whatever the nearest equivalent is nowadays, so it seems to me that the opportunity to be coached by a person who has been responsible for training Class 1 drivers, and then assessing them for continued fitness to hold that grade, would be their dream of advanced driving nirvana.

[jont]

I have the feeling that many IAM and RoADAR members would wet their pants for a chance to sit in a car driven by a Class 1, or whatever the nearest equivalent is nowadays, so it seems to me that the opportunity to be coached by a person who has been responsible for training Class 1 drivers, and then assessing them for continued fitness to hold that grade, would be their dream of advanced driving nirvana.

Some might actually wet their pants as a passenger with a Class 1 driver.

[MGF]

I have the feeling that those who are susceptible to wetting their pants over someone else's driving are prime candidates to aspire to become members of HPC.

Chris Gilbert is both a former Police-driver instructor and a staunch advocate of pull-push steering. That makes me think twice about his instruction. For me, paying for instruction is about adding swift to safe, systematic and smooth when applied to making progress on rural roads. That appears to require an understanding and use of vehicle dynamics.

[jont]

I have the feeling that those who are susceptible to wetting their pants over someone else's driving are prime candidates to aspire to become members of HPC.

Chris Gilbert is both a former Police-driver instructor and a staunch advocate of pull-push steering. That makes me think twice about his instruction. For me, paying for instruction is about adding swift to safe, systematic and smooth when applied to making progress on rural roads. That appears to require an understanding and use of vehicle dynamics.

I think Stressed Dave is still a coach with Cadence....

[jont]

Yes, and I'm currently in discussion with the powers-that-be on here about organising a discount for AD-UK members...

Thanks for the nudge. I've kicked TPTB again

[jcochrane]

I have the feeling that those who are susceptible to wetting their pants over someone else's driving are prime candidates to aspire to become members of HPC.

Chris Gilbert is both a former Police-driver instructor and a staunch advocate of pull-push steering. That makes me think twice about his instruction. For me, paying for instruction is about adding swift to safe, systematic and smooth when applied to making progress on rural roads. That appears to require an understanding and use of vehicle dynamics.

I find I am in agreement with you again. Chris is ex Met and comes across as old school; Hendon. From the time when it was like a sausage factory churning out drivers of the same shape and size so you could not tell them apart. I am sure he is an excellent instructor but like you would not be my choice.

One reason I keep going back to Andy Morrison is because he supports me in creating my own style and helping me develop that style to as high a level as I am capable of. He also always seems to be able to come up with new ideas for me try and then develop. So every training session with him is fresh, inspirational and a lot of fun.

Notwithstanding your reservations I do commend him to you. Do try half a day with him and see what you think.

[Zebedee]

Correct about Andy Morrison. He and especially Rapid Training, of which he was a director, are extremely highly regarded in motorcycling circles. Andy's had various articles published in the mainstream bike press.

He doesn't need a personal website, because of http://www.rapidtraining.co.uk (the bike equivalent of HPC gatekeeper training).

Rapid Training is responsible for carrying out the annual training of every journalist of nearly every motorcycling magazine. That probably keeps Andy and his Rapid colleagues quite busy! Never mind any ongoing police driving school work.

[Kimosabe]

Thanks. (mirrors) I'm currently researching various further training courses (mirrors) so that I can take my driving malarkey even further (mirrors). I'll be applying for my RoSPA test any day now (mirrors), as I seem to have grasped the (mirrors) idea of looking in my mirrors (mirrors) more often while also traveling forwards (mirrors). 'parently (mirrors) it's one of the examiner's pet foibles (mirrors) too so I had better not miss the gold (mirrors) because of it. It's not taking over my (mirrors) life at all.(mirrors)

[michael769]

You forgot the inside mirror! Do you drive a van?

[WhoseGeneration]

You forgot the inside mirror! Do you drive a van?

Nah, I think he meant all mirrors. I do though hope his new found attraction to mirrors doesn't mean he forgets forward.
K's ok, would there were more like him.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

... new found attraction to mirrors ...

You think it's new-found?