ADUK Archive

Hi,

We apply gas when cornering to overcome the drag induced by turning in and endeavour to maintain our speed.

In general, is it best to set gas before steering, after steering (and inducing drag) or blending at the same time; I was wondering how some of you were taught this, and what your experiences etc are.

Thanks
Chad

Chad wrote:Hi,

We apply gas when cornering to overcome the drag induced by turning in and endeavour to maintain our speed.

In general, is it best to set gas before steering, after steering (and inducing drag) or blending at the same time; I was wondering how some of you were taught this, and what your experiences etc are.

Thanks
Chad

[Rushes off to find large bag of popcorn and a good supply of the amber nectar in anticipation of a lively debate]

Chad wrote:Hi,

We apply gas when cornering to overcome the drag induced by turning in and endeavour to maintain our speed.

In general, is it best to set gas before steering, after steering (and inducing drag) or blending at the same time; I was wondering how some of you were taught this, and what your experiences etc are.

Thanks
Chad

Think I might join you Dave in a glass of amber nectar.

Back to the question. Your answer can be found in a number of threads here. StressedDave posted how steering efficiency improves if the the difference in slip angles at front and rear can be kept as low as possible. Generally some gentle gas just before turn in does help with this and is what I often use but as with most things there are exceptions and some bends benefit from trail braking.

I'm getting out fast. Dave where are you with that glass?

Thanks for the posts so far.

The reason I started this thread was because I've come across differing opinions. So I've also found that gentle as I start to steer, stops the drag taking affect and 'seems' to reduce amount of steering input.

I have read some of the previouse threads, but wasn't clear on whether the gas came in before, during or after steering.

Stresseddave also suggested (if I'm not mistaken) increasing the gas mid-bend?

I think Jackie Stewart said something along the lines of 'Dont put the power on until you can see you dont need to take it off'

Maybe linking steering with acceleration can lead to confusion. For a harpin steering comes before acceleration but for a shallow bend acceleration comes before steering.

Starting the steering earlier is beneficial as StressedDave explained whatever the type of bend.

With regard to acceleration I find to associate it with the limit point works for me. As soon as the limit point starts to accelerate away I try and accelerate the car to match it. So when and how much acceleration and rate of acceleration depends on what the limit point is doing. The limit point on many bends does start to move away fractionally before steering input is required, hence why often some gas is applied before steering but as I mentioned above for a hairpin the opposite is true.

Not sure how much sense that makes or whether it helps. So much easier to demonstrate than to put into words.

Editted to add. In low grip such as ice modification is required.

I apply enough gas as I gently turn to maintain my chosen speed.

daz6215 wrote:I think Jackie Stewart said something along the lines of 'Dont put the power on until you can see you dont need to take it off'

That's correct. Makes sense doesn't it.

TripleS wrote:

Chad wrote:Hi,

We apply gas when cornering to overcome the drag induced by turning in and endeavour to maintain our speed.

In general, is it best to set gas before steering, after steering (and inducing drag) or blending at the same time; I was wondering how some of you were taught this, and what your experiences etc are.

Thanks
Chad

[Rushes off to find large bag of popcorn and a good supply of the amber nectar in anticipation of a lively debate]

I'm keeping out of it, for now.

It really depends on what you are trying to do and how you want to drive. My views:-

For much of road-driving I want a really stable balanced middle to the corner with a feisty exit. That really means a stable entry.

So speed right off, power set so that it's mildly positive (not for any real physical dynamic reasons, but for psychological ones) and then turn in, hinting as you go.

If you want to go faster round a track then blending the braking phase into the turn-in and hoping for a stable transition from front to back is a little faster. Getting that stable transition is skill-requiring and so less predictable on a road.

Vision leads decision. Beware tightening bends: you are optimising for the worst not the first.
That should keep the IAMers who like rhyming couplets happy.

Chad wrote:Thanks for the posts so far.

The reason I started this thread was because I've come across differing opinions. So I've also found that gentle as I start to steer, stops the drag taking affect and 'seems' to reduce amount of steering input.

I have read some of the previouse threads, but wasn't clear on whether the gas came in before, during or after steering.

Stresseddave also suggested (if I'm not mistaken) increasing the gas mid-bend?

Chad

A good thread / question.

I suspect the reason you've come across differing opinions is that, as is often the case, the answer somewhat depends on the cicrumstances.

In general, a little bit of gas just before the steering is applied tends to work well. The car is under drive, with a mild shift of weight to the rear of the car. As you turn in, as you mention, there is a bit of drag from the process of steering, and the car should settle down nicely under gentle, sustained power. As the view increases, the gas can be increased and the lock unwound.

I say "in general", however, because there are some key variables that may mean that an alternative approach is preferable. Variables could include:

- drivetrain configuration (front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, four wheel drive)
- weight distribution of the car
- the cornerning speed
- suspension geometry
- available grip (and the percentage of that grip being used)
- camber

So, for example, when turning in and planning to use a lot of front end grip, it may be preferable to keep more weight on the nose the car, rather than lifting the nose slightly be applying the gas. This effect is exaggerated on cars with a rear biased weight distribution, like a 911. If you apply gas in an old 911 pre turn in, chances are you will get some understeer.

Camber is another good example. On an off camber bend, I'd tend to make sure the car is turned in before applying the gas; again keeping just a bit more weight on the front tyres.

The best advice I have always been given is to be learn and adapt to your car's responses to steering and throttle, and develop a high level of awareness as to how the car responds to the timing of and sequencing of the use of both inputs. You can then begin to anticipate the car's responses depending on the variables mentioned, and always be able to manage the car's transitions optimally.

Cheers

Great post, Dave - as ever, you are eminently clear on this complex subject.

stefan einz wrote:Great post, Dave - as ever, you are eminently clear on this complex subject.

Seconded.

Thanks so much for all of your replies - really clarifies a few points. I'll have a practice!!

Chad

Chad wrote:Thanks so much for all of your replies - really clarifies a few points. I'll have a practice!!

Chad

It has already been mentioned that feeling how to do it is better than words. May be worth your while asking on here if there is someone in your area that can share a drive with you that may be able to help.