Where does the road ahead go?

[trashbat]

Something that kind of implicitly comes up for me at ADUK days is that others are much more adept at looking into the distance and taking in clues about where the road goes for some way beyond the unimpeded view; the sort of information you get from hedges, telegraph poles, breaks in trees etc.

My question is what practical gains should I expect from this? Is it a good return on the observational effort?

This might sound very stupid, but if I'm honestly driving to the limit point, just how valuable is this data beyond providing warm satisfaction?

I can see some merits in specific circumstances, and we had a fair example in the form of overtake preparation during the last day out, but at the moment it feels a little marginal and I'm looking for more tangible motivation.

[7db]

My question is what practical gains should I expect from this? Is it a good return on the observational effort?

It's enormous. Throw everything into it.

Your speed, flow, anticipation, passing, steering and handling will all improve if you know where the road is going before you can see where the road is going.

[true blue]

I've been trying recently to 'lift up' my vision too - I find that the extra time it gives to process the information means I'm generally smoother with throttle and steering than when I'm in more enclosed spaces. You may also find that you're prepared for whatever is after the corner you're coming around. For example, if you know you're on an S-bend rather than a single corner, you may adopt a slightly lower speed or change your line a little to account for the second corner.

[trashbat]

My question is what practical gains should I expect from this? Is it a good return on the observational effort?

It's enormous. Throw everything into it.

Your speed, flow, anticipation, passing, steering and handling will all improve if you know where the road is going before you can see where the road is going.

OK, but can you illustrate this somehow? True Blue has an example I can start to get my teeth into. In a way I'm concerned that observation energy is finite, and that which is devoted to the confused picture of far distance is energy that could have been spent on something more imminent, or indeed simply relaxing more. I don't know how true or relevant this is in practice.

I suppose the litmus test would be to determine how I drive differently when I know the road off by heart. My gut feel would be it's not enormously different, but maybe I'm being a bit dishonest or imperceptive there.

Even if it's significantly changed, I wonder if most of those differences would actually just be me slimming down my (normally conservative?) margins of caution in regard to the combination of stopping distance and limit point, which is not necessarily a great thing.

Edit: I thought I'd add that this feels quite closely parallel with Kimosabe's thread about mirrors.

[michael769]

OK, but can you illustrate this somehow?

Here is a couple of concrete examples of the benefits of high levels of observation demonstrating the value of knowing what it around the corner. Both are real life incidents.

1. I observe a glimpse of a bit of the road some distance ahead, I catch a glimpse of an amber beacon. Alerted to a hazard I seek additional opportunities to gather more information and identify a breakdown truck loading a vehicle near to a difficult bend. Noting a vehicle following close behind as I approach the bend I gradually reduce my speed to below what I would normally select based on available vision anticipating that I may need to stop if I cannot pass. I emerge from the bend, and instead of being prepared to accelerate I am prepared to reduce speed further to be confronted by the truck with an oncoming HGV slowly squeezing past. Having effectively controlled the speed of the following vehicle I am able to pull up with only light breaking managing the dangers presented by the following vehicle.

2. I observe movement off to the right hand side some distance ahead. A further glance identified a vehicle moving towards my road at right angles. From this I form the opinion that I will encounter a road junction ahead from which the vehicle may emerge causing me to encounter a slow moving vehicle from local knowledge I know that this junction emerges shortly after a bend at a very awkward angle that makes it hard for emerging drivers to observe traffic coming from my direction. I also recall having seen evidence of collisions at this location.

I select a lower gear than normal and adjust my speed to accommodate my expectation of encountering the vehicle, as I emerge from the bend I encounter the vehicle pulling out, the driver gets a bit of a surprise from my sudden appearance and overreacts by dropping an anchor and blocking the road. I stop gently and allowing him plenty of space to sort himself out.

In both cases my response is planned in advance so my actions are dictated by decisions I have made rather than being a pure reaction to the unexpected. Not only does this increase safety, by allowing me time to consider other relevant factors and constraints, it is also significantly better for my own comfort and nerves.

On a familiar road remember that familiarity breeds contempt. If you actively look for what you know is there, you also increase the chances of noticing what was not there the last time.

[MrToad]

As has been said, it's about creating time.

You'll still be driving to the Limit Point, but if your vision is also further up the road you can use the early information to plan and prepare.

The driver who's looking further ahead will be smoother into the bends and quicker out of them.

[7db]

OK, but can you illustrate this somehow? True Blue has an example I can start to get my teeth into. In a way I'm concerned that observation energy is finite, and that which is devoted to the confused picture of far distance is energy that could have been spent on something more imminent, or indeed simply relaxing more. I don't know how true or relevant this is in practice.

Observation energy isn't finite. You just get to see more and more earlier and earlier.

Ever misread a corner? Ever fail to keep up with the limit point when it starts racing (speedy little bugger, isn't it?).

Start by searching for and using the raised limit point to help you anticipate the run of the tarmac. The raised limit point is point where the hedge/tree line ends. It's usually a bit more advanced than the limit point as the bend unwinds.

Besides -- what else are you going to work on in your driving? Cranking out the observation pays back a billion times over. It makes you clairvoyant, charming in parties and exceptionally good in bed. Give it a go.

[JamesAllport]

I was going to say that you're right it is a marginal gain because, past a point somewhere quite near the start of this journey, the gains get pretty marginal pretty quickly. That's not a reason not to do it. The difference between a decent club player & a masters winner in golf is the accretion of marginal gains.

But I like 7db's answer a lot more...

[Kimosabe]

Yup. Totally get what you mean. Good question.

"Where does the road ahead go?" You'll probably know if it's relevant.

It's not the doing of long-range forecasting, it's the making relevant sense of it that I have difficulty with. I get the theory but can't often get it to work but that's theories for ya

Long range forward observation (or any other observation for that matter) is only ever going to be of any use if the information gained from it is used to form a plan or several 'what if' plans and they are acted upon. I find my style of planning to be more immediate but not to the point of having to react, so my drives are often very comfortable for all concerned with very few minor adjustments (some folk approach junctions too fast). Greater distances of planning may be of use at high speed and with blue flashing lights but at 29.9mph, how far ahead do you need to know anything about...and if you did, unless distracted, you'd know about it without having to make a concerted effort. If distracted, what was going on further up the road when you observed it, is not what you will be thinking about. But I get the theory, just don't find it works for me.

>/begin soothsayer mode
Sooner or later, there will be no option but to follow lanes and signs as if on a tracks and we won't have the chance to express ourselves as we now do.
>/end soothsayer mode

Very often what I find myself doing, is (practicing it more and more by the way because it's the done thing) noticing loads of stuff waaaayyy ahead and by the time I have scanned back to more imminent and evidently far more important information (emergencies excepted) which is likely to affect the next few seconds, what I saw going on way up ahead (unless is of catastrophic proportions) means absolutely nothing. Perhaps a chat with a Traffic cop would help as they tend to ask searching questions about previous driving events and I may surprise myself with what I saw.

For what it's worth, I still don't look in my mirrors whenever I turn into a new road (urban) because that's exactly where people will be short cutting their crossing instead of walking a bit further before squaring the corner. If i'm not looking for them because i'm looking backwards, i'm guilty of not paying due care or attention. That, to my mind, is safe. "Okay so new road, Mirr..."(BANG!) "I'm sorry i didn't see them because I was looking for nobody in my mirrors". Doesn't sound very safe to me.

So somewhere along or shortly after the seeing-judging-planning-memorising timeline, i'm not making anything useful out of the most distant information I gained. Reason being that it's not of any relevance. I feel justified in saying that. I can think of loads of examples of times where I have seen the road way ahead and by the time I get there, i'm dealing with it as if I only saw it as part of my more immediate 'plan A'. This is more to do with Short vs Long term memory and how it is often explained. Is this making sense? Am I explaining it right? That's one of the most common issues I have with Roadcrafting is that the book assumes I know nothing, when in almost 30 years of driving, I have proved to be a successfully safe driver and my system works for me.

I think what is most important to me, is what I take most notice of and the purpose of knowing where the road goes in half a mile. What's going on down there is way down the list of priorities if there's loads of other things going on more immediately. Yes forward planning and observation is important but for how far ahead is it relevant? I guess that depends on whether you're exiting a slip road onto a Motorway where you'll need to know in advance if the lanes ahead are clear enough to proceed onto. So the speed is relevant to this.

I recently went out for a drive as part of a Mercedes-benz marketing strategy. The guy was RoSPA/IAM/ADI and works as a driving instructor. Nice chap. At one point in the test drive and after we had chatted about IAM, RoSPA etc, he asked me what I was observing ahead. We were driving along a fairly quiet road, late evening so it was still light and there were not many people or cars moving around. The cars that were moving around had their lights on and people were easy to see because it's a wide and straight road. To give you some idea, from the Portslade/Hove end, it is possible to be at the beginning of Portland road looking East and due to the layout of the land (Brighton is in a shallow valley with a steep side to the East), to see the TV mast on top of the hill some five miles away in Kemptown ...on the other side of Brighton. So that is as far as I could see but as it was not relevant, I didn't say so. However, what was relevant to me was not the multitude of traffic lights reaching off into the distance or even the roads that crossed Portland road half a mile away but the nearby pub, the zebra crossing, the side roads for a few hundred yards and how clear the road was for the next 1/4 mile or so and less. As for what was going on upto 1/4 mile behind me? That was of far less relevance and if there was something that needed to make it's presence felt, it would have done so and I would have been aware of it. I'm visually very observant, so have no issues with finding relevant information. What he said was important to him was the furthest traffic light he could see, which was red and about a mile away. So why he thought that was more relevant than anything more immediate, we never got to the bottom of. It took us minutes to get there and the lights had changed a couple of times. I let it sink in and left it there incase I was being incredibly daft and just not getting something but it still came across as coming from a book. I know I have difficulties with receiving and following information immediately after it is given, as I have short term memory issues but once it's adapted to Long term memory, it sticks around for years.

So how far depends on what requires your attention and whether or not it's relevant. If it's a treeline or lamp post showing a bend, you'll know what to do.

Just thought i'd share that with you.

[fungus]

Stephen Haley says in Mind Driving that there little point in planning more than ten seconds ahead.

[Astraist]

I always advise to observe as far ahead as possible.

For one, there is the use of the crossview in bends. On the approach for the bend, before you look for the limit point, looking besides to the crossview beyond the bend or series of bends, or for some indication as to where the road is going, allows to better estimate the bend instead of merely being led by the limit point.

Even if you know the bend, doing so allows to better form the bend in your mind from a "bird's eye" point of view, which in turns allows to better plan your approach and line across the bend.

Also, on the exit of the bend, where the limit point starts racing away, we advise to look up to the crossview again, since this makes it easier to straighten out of the bend and position for the next one, if one comes into view.

[7db]

Stephen Haley says in Mind Driving that there little point in planning more than ten seconds ahead.

He must get really panicky when he's down to his last ten seconds of fuel. There's *never* a petrol station around when you need one.

[trashbat]

Kimosabe, you crystallised a bit of my thinking into words quite well there. I think when it came to your MB chappy, you might have over-analysed a bit - most likely he was trying to gauge where your view lay or extended to, and not saying that the distant lights were valuable per se. The question remains though: what to do with it.

If we put aside motivation, and assume I learn to observe better, then my concern is it turns into a useless comfort blanket; that is, I see where the road goes better than anyone, giving me a warm fuzzy feeling of smugness, but I don't use the information and actually come off worse. I know I fall into this trap already to a degree in certain areas.

Lots to mull over in the other responses. James, I particularly like your answer.

[WhoseGeneration]

‘There were also no speed limits outside of built-up areas! You could maintain over 100mph for hour after hour because there just wasn’t the traffic. I did have one hairy moment, though, when I was driving with my team-mate John Hartley through Sweden. It was one of those straight up-and-down roads where the telegraph poles run alongside – and then the poles continued straight on beyond a crest, but the road turned sharp left… I’m not sure that John came with me so often after that!

Who wrote this?, which illustrates the dangers of assumption in some of the theory of looking far ahead.