Roadcraft on Steering

[TR4ffic]

I would hope/trust that Associates are picked up for/actively discouraged from using hand-over-hand ('knitting') and crossing the arm over the wheel to grip the inside of the wheel rim (Not sure what that's called...). I view these as bad habits. Am I correct in thinking that they would be picked up for this?

As per my previous post, I use a mix of steering techniques and would be happy to discuss (argue the toss) with any observer (but always be willing to listen and learn...) but I wouldn't knit or grip the inside of the rim to pull the wheel round. No one has commented on/agreed/disagreed my post above..!

So, for any observers out there, do you/would you pick up an associate for steering like this and, if so, what methods would you employ to correct it or, if not, why..?

[jcochrane]

I would hope/trust that Associates are picked up for/actively discouraged from using hand-over-hand ('knitting') and crossing the arm over the wheel to grip the inside of the wheel rim (Not sure what that's called...). I view these as bad habits. Am I correct in thinking that they would be picked up for this?

As per my previous post, I use a mix of steering techniques and would be happy to discuss (argue the toss) with any observer (but always be willing to listen and learn...) but I wouldn't knit or grip the inside of the rim to pull the wheel round. No one has commented on/agreed/disagreed my post above..!

So, for any observers out there, do you/would you pick up an associate for steering like this and, if so, what methods would you employ to correct it or, if not, why..?

I expect most on here were in agreement with you.

[WhoseGeneration]

to any casual observer of this forum, in terms of numbers of pages, we seem to overly concerned with the minutiae of technique and less with real world driving?

What else do you imagine there could be here?

Well and I'm not sure I can fully explain my thoughts, but it's to do with that I'm not sure the simple fundamentals of AD and how they could help the majority of drivers, are always evident here.
The simple stuff, following distance, not being a leeming, the observation, anticipation and planning.

[Astraist]

I wouldn't knit or grip the inside of the rim to pull the wheel round. No one has commented on/agreed/disagreed my post above..!

Gripping the rim on the inside is a matter in which some small drivers or those with little upper body strength, compensate for their difficulty in pushing the wheel across when applying rotational steering. Instead, the place the opposite hand across the wheel and on the inside.

This method has the downside of using excessive upper body strength (more brute strength means less sensitivity and smoothness and more effort) and has a serious angle limitation due to the range of the shoulder cuff rotators when the hand is place like so. The driver can of course alternate grip to the other hand during the manuever but during a sudden manuever, the hand inside the wheel can become momentarily stuck and obstruct the opposite hand from rotating it further. When collision occurs, there will be severe fractures to that hand.

As for "knitting", which I gather is simply a name for rotational steering, as long as it is done by taking large "sweepes" of steering in each hand movement, I don't discourage it, albeit not being ideal for most driving conditions.

[Gareth]

What else do you imagine there could be here?

I'm not sure the simple fundamentals of AD and how they could help the majority of drivers, are always evident here.
The simple stuff, following distance, not being a leeming, the observation, anticipation and planning.

I think they're pretty much a given to most here, but if anyone has questions that relate they're given another airing.

The problem is that the success of these fora are also their downfall -- without people worrying at the details there'd be little here, which in turn would probably result in less interest.

[WhoseGeneration]

The problem is that the success of these fora are also their downfall -- without people worrying at the details there'd be little here, which in turn would probably result in less interest.

Except these fora are not successful, AD being a minority interest rather than mainstream.

[Gareth]

Except these fora are not successful, AD being a minority interest rather than mainstream.

That's a strange way of looking at it. AD was a minority interest before the advent of any online fora, let alone this one. I would suggest the enthusiasm of discussion and the allied real-world meetings have provided an outlet for many people that didn't hitherto exist. In that I would say it is very much a success.

Undoubtedly the website and these fora will have encouraged some who sought information about how to go about improving their driving.

I'm not sure why you would think an online forum would serve to generate significant new interest; it certainly helps when people already have the interest, but when the vast majority of drivers are merely appliance operators no online AD discussion forum is likely to attract their attention. FWIW the only way I've found to get people interested in changing how they drive has been to sit with them and find something that lets them feel a difference.

[jont]

FWIW the only way I've found to get people interested in changing how they drive has been to sit with them and find something that lets them feel a difference.

<nods> and I suspect this is even more important when someone is a keen/enthusiastic driver who thinks they are already reasonably competent. From the often rather dry discussions online it's never as obvious how you can improve/change things.

Mind you, I'm often frustrated that enthusiastic drivers on other forums seem quite happy to value limit handling/track driver training, but don't see that they could also learn how to drive better on the road. When pushed, you might get a few other people admitting they have done IAM/Ride Drive days, and that they were worthwhile, but never the same enthusiasm that people have for limit handling.

[MGF]

Limit handling is a fun day out. Away from the usual constraints of driving on the road. Trying to evoke enjoyment in road driving is much more difficult.

[martine]

...Mind you, I'm often frustrated that enthusiastic drivers on other forums seem quite happy to value limit handling/track driver training, but don't see that they could also learn how to drive better on the road.

Absolutely agree - over the last 2 years I have tried to get other members of the Focus ST owners club interested - there are thousands of members but so far just one has actually done anything. There's a lot of interest in modding their cars, spending thousands £ but no interest in 'modding' their driving

[jont]

Limit handling is a fun day out. Away from the usual constraints of driving on the road. Trying to evoke enjoyment in road driving is much more difficult.

I'd agree in the more general case, but this particular forum is full of members for whom the car is often a toy and who will go on long B-roads drives just for the fun of it.

[Porker]

I was told by my RoSPA observer only to use PP, because I had briefly used Fixed Input to negotiate a bend. The reason given was that because it is the favoured method used by racing drivers, it encourages a more aggressive racing style of driving.

Words fail me.

P.

[MGF]

Limit handling is a fun day out. Away from the usual constraints of driving on the road. Trying to evoke enjoyment in road driving is much more difficult.

I'd agree in the more general case, but this particular forum is full of members for whom the car is often a toy and who will go on long B-roads drives just for the fun of it.

But does AD appear as enhancing that fun? I think drivers look for less constraint and it is difficult to persuade people that AD might allow more fun to be had on the road.

[gjohns]

I hear a whisper that Peter Rodger is about to issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2, a limitation which significantly downgrades the usefulness of fixed grip per se. I really hope my informant is wrong.

[Silk]

I hear a whisper that Peter Rodger is about to issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2, a limitation which significantly downgrades the usefulness of fixed grip per se. I really hope my informant is wrong.

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?