Roadcraft on Steering

[fungus]

I hear a whisper that Peter Rodger is about to issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2, a limitation which significantly downgrades the usefulness of fixed grip per se. I really hope my informant is wrong.

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?

In a series of sweeping bends where the driver does not need to steer beyond 12-o-clock with the hands at quarter to three, there is a significant advantage in as much as the steering input is more direct and the hands will return to quarter to three when the steering is straightened.

[michael769]

On faster roads where steering movements are smaller fixed grip is more efficient and IMO offers more control (as both hands grip the wheel at all times).

[hir]

I was told by my RoSPA observer only to use PP, because I had briefly used Fixed Input to negotiate a bend. The reason given was that because it is the favoured method used by racing drivers, it encourages a more aggressive racing style of driving.

Words fail me.

P.

Let's think about this... how about a form of words along the lines of... "he's an idiot", will that do?

[waremark]

I hear a whisper that Peter Rodger is about to issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2, a limitation which significantly downgrades the usefulness of fixed grip per se. I really hope my informant is wrong.

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?

No - perhaps it is because you have failed to see.

There are several more advantages than have yet been mentioned - which is not to say anything against PP.

[GJD]

I hear a whisper that Peter Rodger is about to issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2, a limitation which significantly downgrades the usefulness of fixed grip per se. I really hope my informant is wrong.

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?

No - perhaps it is because you have failed to see.

There are several more advantages than have yet been mentioned - which is not to say anything against PP.

Perhaps the problem here is that we are thinking of fixed grip as a steering method.

There's no getting away from it - at times one needs to move one's hands on the steering wheel. Perhaps we should define a Steering Method as a technique used to steer when one decides to move one's hands. So: P-P, predictive, rotational - these are steering methods. Fixed grip, by that definition, is not. Fixed grip is simply moving the steering wheel to where it needs to be.

When the necessary steering input is such that it can't be achieved smoothly and accurately by just moving the wheel to were it needs to be, its time to deploy a Steering Method.

[Horse]

There's no getting away from it - at times one needs to move one's hands on the steering wheel. Perhaps we should define a Steering Method as a technique used to steer when one decides to move one's hands. So: P-P, predictive, rotational - these are steering methods. Fixed grip, by that definition, is not. Fixed grip is simply moving the steering wheel to where it needs to be.

When the necessary steering input is such that it can't be achieved smoothly and accurately by just moving the wheel to were it needs to be, its time to deploy a Steering Method.

And, let's be brutally honest here, how many crashes are actually caused by 'poor steering technique'? The discussion here is more about polish/finesse than safety. If your steering method gets you into further trouble (or won't get you out of it), then you've probably already dug a big painful hole full of trouble by poor observation, planning, anticipation, perception, realism, etc.

[TR4ffic]

...issue an edict to the effect that fixed grip is disapproved, although maybe ok up to 12 o'clock on the wheel only if you start at 10 to 2...

Well, I hope that the communication, when it eventually comes out, is clear and unambiguous... You can't have an edict to disapprove, although maybe OK... It's either one or the other.

IMO, an edict to disapprove would not make sense. Fixed Grip is a useful [cliché warning] tool in the box which I have been employing for years (before I knew it as Fixed Grip) although, from a 9-3 position, I only use it up to 45deg steering input – but that’s a personal preference.

[Astraist]

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?

If steering racks were far shorter than they are on modern street cars, than fixed-input would be the single and best way to steer! For turning the wheel less than 90 degrees, fixed input is ideal. It always maintaining smoothness, accuracy and measurement (i.e. knowing where straight ahead is), no matter how slowly or quickly you have to turn the wheel. It is also the most simple, natural and straight forward steering style (see GJD's post).

Of course, street car steering racks are far longer, more complex "techniques" have to applied at slower speeds and tighter turning radii. Bearing in mind the advantages of fixed-input, I find it personally best to simply use an enhanced form of fixed-input simply by applying predictive steering.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Perhaps the problem here is that we are thinking of fixed grip as a steering method
.... and lots more sensible stuff ....

Where's the "like" button on here?

[MGF]

Although GJD's suggestion of 'fixed grip' not being a steering method is contrived and likely to lead to an unnecessary discussion I don't think anyone can argue with the claim that fixed grip steering is simple, natural, and effective when small inputs are needed.

I do agree that a better question is not when fixed grip should be used but when it should not? I always start with fixed grip input unless I anticipate I will need more turning than it can provide effectively.

We don't argue over which is the best gear. I can't understand why we need to argue over the best steering method.

[Ancient]

Has no-one noticed that the 'fixed input/grip' steering illustration in the new Roadcraft is not 'fixed' at all?

Look carefully on p113, at the hand on the side towards which the steering is happening (left for 2nd picture, right for 3rd). In both cases it has moved up the steering wheel from its position in the first picture, as the wheel is being pushed around by the opposite hand; it is no longer next to the cross bar of the wheel. That is not what is described in the text of course ("Make small changes in direction ... without altering your hand hold"); but to me the illustrations are clearly showing push-pull (i.e the opposite of pull-push)!

[WhoseGeneration]

I fail to see the advantage of fixed grip. Is that because there isn't one?

There are advantages and disadvantages to every means of steering.
Thing is, for a capable driver, any method can be changed to another should circumstances dictate.
Safe and smooth should be the only considerations.
Sometimes I've been known to employ predictive involving crossed hands. So, burn me.

[WhoseGeneration]

Except these fora are not successful, AD being a minority interest rather than mainstream.

That's a strange way of looking at it. AD was a minority interest before the advent of any online fora, let alone this one. I would suggest the enthusiasm of discussion and the allied real-world meetings have provided an outlet for many people that didn't hitherto exist. In that I would say it is very much a success.

Undoubtedly the website and these fora will have encouraged some who sought information about how to go about improving their driving.

I'm not sure why you would think an online forum would serve to generate significant new interest; it certainly helps when people already have the interest, but when the vast majority of drivers are merely appliance operators no online AD discussion forum is likely to attract their attention. FWIW the only way I've found to get people interested in changing how they drive has been to sit with them and find something that lets them feel a difference.

Yes, you're probably right, it's just that I get frustrated that AD is not the standard that all are required to exhibit.
Raising the bar if you will rather than the dumbed down approach of Government.

[Horse]

Raising the bar if you will rather than the dumbed down approach of Government.

Totally OT, but that's not what OFSTED have recently done, by removing one of the assessment categories.

Effectively, by removing 'OK' as an option, they placed all the schools which would have achieved that grade down in to the 'unsatisfactory' grade . . . obviously that further increases the need for inspectors and OFSTED [/cynical]

[jont]

Raising the bar if you will rather than the dumbed down approach of Government.

Totally OT, but that's not what OFSTED have recently done, by removing one of the assessment categories.

Effectively, by removing 'OK' as an option, they placed all the schools which would have achieved that grade down in to the 'unsatisfactory' grade . . . obviously that further increases the need for inspectors and OFSTED [/cynical]

Well they've somehow got to make up for the fact that "outstanding" schools are no longer routinely inspected so can't lose their rating