Braking Techniques for different hazards

[foxtrot_mike]

When dealing with a hazard what braking technique should i be using.

I was chatting to a driving instructor that as soon as I see an actual hazard i should be getting on the brakes as soon as i can in order to keep the journey as smooth as possible even if this impedes your progress and you have to crawl for a bit at a constant speed before you tackle the hazard, I can understand this for shorter distances to a hazard but for longer ones this would be silly and may go against eco driving.

Id say that you should be slowing to make it comfortable but as to be driving at the correct speed to take the hazard at the right time before the hazard, which of course you might have to stop.

[7db]

Partly it's a style thing. Are you wafting or are you the last-of-the-late-brakers? Either way, it is limited by ensuring you can stop before the developing hazard should you need to and achieving the correct speed for the hazard early enough to allow your gear change.

Once you have established the hazard, your primary consideration is position and whether you can improve the hazard at all. Then you should start taking a view on whether it is a "brake, lift or drive" hazard. On approach you can downgrade your view, but not upgrade it. It's a "brake" hazard, the view opens a little and it might become a "lift". It opens further and you realise you can drive through. Either way -- you are going to plan to do your brake, lift or drive in good time for the gear -- unless there is an upgrade first.

Personally I like taking decisions with more information rather than less, so I prefer to be closer to the hazard before I select my speed.

[Ralge]

Well, it is "Info TUG" that includes "give".
The need for or usefulness of early braking (or passing the red light backward, at least) depends on a flexible interpretation of and response to the whole situation (road type, prevailing speed, road surface, weather ...) and on what's behind you, surely.

So I can't see that a single braking "technique" is required at all. But I do like to see/feel a single, smooth braking action that allows, wherever safe and practicable, the vehicle to be kept moving through hazards.

[TripleS]

It's a pity Cornwall is so far away from God's own county of North Yorkshire, otherwise this is the sort of thing I'd like to have looked at with you, Mike; not because I profess to be any kind of expert, but with a view to seeing what options we could identify together, and see what best suits each of us.

On the scale of 'wafter' versus 'last of the late brakers', I'm generally in wafting mode these days, so I aim to deal with hazards in a very easygoing fashion, but without sacrificing too much time and progress.

Ultimately all that matters is that you have sufficient time and space in which to cope comfortably with whatever the hazard turns out to be, bearing in mind that the hazard as you first see it may become more severe than at first sight, or it may have disappeared completely by the time you get there.

I guess your question could do with a few more contributions from others really.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Ralge]

And it does seem a little unbalanced that so much time on here is spent discussing the physical control aspects of driving (steering, braking) when, for me, the biggest, most impressive part of an Advanced Driver's performance, after noting the silky smoothness of it, is his/her reading of the road (observational and anticipation skills) and timely development and execution of a safe but progressive driving plan.
But maybe the latter measure of AD can only be expressed (demonstrated) on-road and not so easily in words on here.

[TR4ffic]

Ditto previous posts. I did start writing this yesterday so there has been some overlap…

I think the advice from that Driving Instructor is a bit confusing and counter-productive. This could also be summarised as, ‘He doesn’t know what he’s talking about’…! Hopefully, after reading this, you won’t think the same of me…

Of course, any advice you are given will always be tempered by the type of hazard you come across and its context within your journey. In other words, the all-encompassing, it depends…

As for different types of hazard, your approach/ethos for dealing with static hazards (bends, junctions, etc.) and dynamic hazards (other road users, pedestrians, etc.), things that can and do move about (sometimes unexpectedly), will rightly vary.

I would say, in general, that you don’t want to be getting on the brakes as soon as a hazard hoves into view – I can’t see how this can ‘keep the journey as smooth as possible’ but, to the contrary, will produce a jerky, erratic drive that won’t instil confidence in your passengers of your driving ability.

It is the implementation of ‘the system’ or IPSGA or, as new Roadcraft now seems to prefer, PSGA with I (Information) sitting across all phases (or whatever you’d like to call it) that should set you apart from other road users; the observation, forward planning, anticipation and commitment that will turn almost any hazard into a non-event and turn every drive into what seems like a sunny Sunday afternoon outing into the countryside. No hassle. No fuss…

Once you’ve got your speed right for the road/conditions, observation and forward planning will allow you to see and anticipate hazards ahead and, where conditions allow, ahead of traffic in front of you. Start reacting to those hazards by an adjustment in position and/or a change in speed (that may be just taking your foot off the gas), or just noting a potential hazard and increasing the frequency of checks. It may be a potential hazard that doesn’t materialise but if you noted it – checked around you, checked your position and speed – at least you are prepared should that hazard materialise.

In some cases, you can deal with a hazard by increasing speed – not braking. For example…

Coming up behind a cyclist or parked car on the nearside with a car approaching in the distance; good observation and forward planning, a move out towards white line to improve the view, a quick speed/distance calc, some commitment and you can accelerate past the cyclist/parked car and back safely to the nearside safely with no fuss. If your first instinct was to break you could miss the opportunity and be down at 5mph behind the cyclist or stopped waiting for the approaching car to pass – Not good progress… However, your good observation and planning should be mindful, in a similar situation, of not ‘dragging’ closely following traffic through with you; they may not see the approaching car and will blindly follow you through. So, in that situation, it may be safer to slow/stop. It depends…

Equally, in the same situation, when you decide it’s not safe to proceed having done the speed/distance calc, you can reduce speed earlier (possibly brake if necessary), allow the approaching car to pass, you’ll already have selected the correct gear for the speed and you’re away. Get it right and you’ve hopefully maintained a higher average speed through the hazard.

The long and the short of it is that you’re not going to get a definitive answer on here and, as others having pointed out, you need to get out and practise – preferably on an observed drive. What I can say, with some certainty, is that you don’t want to be braking at the first site of a hazard and, more importantly, there’s no need to.

And lastly, I hope I haven’t given others an opportunity to nit-pick just because I’ve been brave enough to put finger to keyboard. All roads/conditions/circumstances vary – what works in one place today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. It depends…

[Ralge]

Excellent write-up, Nick.

[waremark]

And it does seem a little unbalanced that so much time on here is spent discussing the physical control aspects of driving (steering, braking) when, for me, the biggest, most impressive part of an Advanced Driver's performance, after noting the silky smoothness of it, is his/her reading of the road (observational and anticipation skills) and timely development and execution of a safe but progressive driving plan.
But maybe the latter measure of AD can only be expressed (demonstrated) on-road and not so easily in words on here.

Excellent post.

[foxtrot_mike]

I have got back into the forum now, had password issues.

Yes I realise now that after posting and going for a further drive this is very subjective and probably only something I can do with an observer, thanks for the offer Dave its a shame you're far away. But i have tried to make my braking earlier but this seems to have changed iPSGA to iSGPGA because i had to do an interim shift change rather than my block change to pre-select a gear before my new set speed. The drive may have been a bit smoother in terms of braking forces but adding extra gear shifts negated that and certainly not an advanced drive.

I didn't give the full picture in my original post because I didn't want to complicate things, I had to update my Minibus Permit for the local Council, for this i needed to do a home multiple choice quiz and then 45 mins on the road with an instructor, the merits of this scheme is topic for another debate.

The instructor said that i could of been braking a lot more earlier and taking longer to get up to speed in a longer time, yes with the bus you have to do this more so because of the larger slower vehicle but then i think making safe progress is even more important for this reason. I tried to brake sooner and accelerate longer when i did it but its going to take longer than 45 min drive to sort this out, i got requalified anyway.

I don't drive buses that often so i was wondering whether i can use the car to home in on what she was saying, she mentioned a lot about "what if" scenarios too and not something i hear about often when researching AD stuff

[TR4ffic]

Ah, OK... some context...

Firstly, there is quite a bit of difference between being told "as soon as I see an actual hazard I should be getting on the brakes" from your first post and your instructor saying "I could of been braking a lot more earlier" from the last one... Did your instructor say you were braking too late for a hazard or seeing hazards too late?

I also (for my sins) tow a touring caravan so I can appreciate the difference in speed/performance and the application of AD. I think what you should be aiming to do extend your observation because of your slower speed - use the extra time that your slower speed affords you to look further ahead, assess the potentials and the "what if's", enhance your forward planning. The reason for this is that opportunities will be limited or reduced because of your larger size, lower speed and poorer performance (that's the minibus - not you personally!) and, therefore, you need to be ready to take those opportunities as and when they arise (e.g. A change in position/lane so that you're not forced into a reduction in speed) or, if possible, engineer the opportunity. If you've spent time gaining precious speed, don't throw it away...

You do, however, need to be reacting to hazards earlier due to poorer braking performance and also for the comfort of your passengers. You will need a longer braking phase but, in general, you shouldn't be having an intermediate gear change.

You can practise your AD skills in your everyday car and transfer those skills to your minibus driving but you will need to make allowances for the differing performance and have a slightly different mind-set in each. If anything, I feel my towing experience and the application of AD has enhanced my solo (non-towing) driving.

I'm glad you passed your assessment...