Steering - again, what should be taught

[waremark]

Following discussion on the subject of dogma - or not - in the members forum, I am starting another thread on steering and invite input on what if anything should be taught to those starting out on 'Advanced Driving'.

Currently, the IAM's book How to be a Better Driver recommends only one steering technique - Pull Push (I am not going to describe each technique here).

I, and many of us, positively disagree wth this. While PP works well for most drivers in many situations, it is certainly not the best in all situations. The IAM says that PP is the only technique which Observers should teach or demonstrate, but supposedly accepts the use of other techniques so long as used appropriately.

Roadcraft states that a range of techniques suit different situations and recommends -

Fixed Grip for small movements (not going past 12 o'clock, though your handhold is allowed to be quarter past three!! - sic, editorial error). Many experts agree that fixed grip gives the smoothest steering, with good sensitivity and best control for higher speed driving, when large movements are not required.

Pull Push for larger turns (again, Pulling hand not to start beyond 12 o'clock), and

'Rotational steering is also an option' - mentioning that most steering can be done without moving the hands on the wheel, up to about 120 degrees of steering wheel turn. Roadcraft gives no suggestions about when this is suitable, but it works well for fast long movements of the wheel, such as may be required for manoeuvering or skid control.

Personally, I would be more flexible about going over 12 o'clock, and I would add a further technique apparently taught in some police driving schools - prepositioning the hands before the start of a turn, then steering with fixed grip such that the hands are not too far from quarter to three during the turn.

There has been debate elsewhere about what techniques should be taught, or indeed whether either new drivers or those new to advanced driving should be encouraged to find and choose their own techniques. My feeling is that without teaching most drivers choose to steer in a way which gives neither control nor smoothness - generally one hand in a sub-optimal position; I therefore think teaching is often necessary, and allowing a student to experiment without suggestions is wasteful of time. I would therefore choose to teach all the above techniques, and encourage thinking about what each is good for.

What would and do others teach and why?

[jont]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding above, but wouldn't the starting point be to see what the mentee struggles with and then think about what techniques they would benefit from, rather than have an idea in advance of what you want to teach? I have a few different sets of roads, including one of a series of uphill hairpin bends that I find quite useful in seeing how a mentee copes with the requirement of lots of steering input

[ROG]

How many drivers out there can do PP effectively?

that is probably the bigger question because many who I have observed through the years do not know and when they try its in small shuffles and not making use of the full wheel

they seem to be able to do all sorts of other steering but its using PP effectively which is missing

I never have to advise on any other sort of steering so that just proves my point

As the idea of AD is so the driver has more options then being able to use PP effectively is a big plus

[Gareth]

a series of uphill hairpin bends that I find quite useful in seeing how a mentee copes with the requirement of lots of steering input

Excellent choice, sir!

[lordgrover]

As a new associate and new to AD in general, I've found pull/push steering far more difficult than expected.

I've seen the shuffle for years and sneered, like you do. Now I have an idea of the benefits and had a little instruction I'm trying to get it right to reap those benefits. Decades of sloppy style is proving very tricky to undo.

Those of you who are observers and long-experienced AD maybe surprised how difficult we n00bs find something which on the surface is so simple. Grrr.

[Horse]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding above, but wouldn't the starting point be to see what the mentee struggles with and then think about what techniques they would benefit from, rather than have an idea in advance of what you want to teach?

Yup.

I'd concentrate on the safety-critical aspects first, then gradually move onto fine-tuning.

identify (with 'evil' roads if needed) where they have trouble, and first find out whether they see it as a problem. Trying to 'fix' what they don't see as such will be difficult.

[vonhosen]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding above, but wouldn't the starting point be to see what the mentee struggles with and then think about what techniques they would benefit from, rather than have an idea in advance of what you want to teach? I have a few different sets of roads, including one of a series of uphill hairpin bends that I find quite useful in seeing how a mentee copes with the requirement of lots of steering input

That is the point. If you believe that somebodies technique leaves them open to problems, then put them in areas where they will experience those problems. If they cope then your fears were unfounded. If they don't cope it should be obvious to them & they'll want to instigate change because their current choices leave them vulnerable or make them drop below the performance level they desire. Letting them see/feel it doesn't work how they want is far better than you telling them it's wrong.

[vonhosen]

There has been debate elsewhere about what techniques should be taught, or indeed whether either new drivers or those new to advanced driving should be encouraged to find and choose their own techniques. My feeling is that without teaching most drivers choose to steer in a way which gives neither control nor smoothness - generally one hand in a sub-optimal position; I therefore think teaching is often necessary, and allowing a student to experiment without suggestions is wasteful of time. I would therefore choose to teach all the above techniques, and encourage thinking about what each is good for.

What would and do others teach and why?

They won't change unless they decide to change. The purpose in letting them choose is to give them responsibility for the choice & outcome resulting from that choice (by doing this it is working on the higher GDE levels whilst you work on the lower levels at the same time). If you believe that their methods will hold them back, place them in scenarios where there performance will be compromised. That has one of two results. 1) They see that their chosen method (that they are responsible for) is holding them back. If they want to do better they'll tweak or change to get better results. 2) The other result is they won't care about their performance as a result of their choice, so they won't change. If that's the case they wouldn't have made a long term change for you anyway (if they won't do it for themselves long term they won't do it for others), so you are no worse off. The win is getting them to take responsibility & them choose to tweak or try new methods.

Working on the higher levels of GDE isn't a waste of time, that's where the conviction to improve & stick with it lays & that's where the barriers that need to be overcome lay.

[revian]

Are we back to the coaching thread?

The enemy of which might be time with someone... If there's not enough is the temptation (not sure it's fair word but I think it'll do) to tell how to overcome it etc.

As a PS... The HERMES suff may be part of our RoSPA group evening at some point... So thanks to all for this.

[vonhosen]

Are we back to the coaching thread?

The enemy of which might be time with someone... If there's not enough is the temptation (not sure it's fair word but I think it'll do) to tell how to overcome it etc.

As a PS... The HERMES suff may be part of our RoSPA group evening at some point... So thanks to all for this.

What would and do others teach and why?

The fear is time, but it doesn't work out like that. Because you are giving them greater freedom they haven't got to shape themselves to fit through one shaped hole, they can pick any of the holes that will accommodate their chosen shape.
The real hurdle is moving from dedicated stylistic tests to outcome based tests etc.
Then coaching can actually take less time, because they (through coaching) learn & start to coach themselves.They also aren't having to drill themselves to do something they a)don't believe in but do just to pass the stylistic test b) struggle to do far more than alternatives.

At the moment there is a lot of measuring what isn't important because it's easy to measure (you didn't pull push or you did, you didn't separate brakes & gears or you did), when it isn't adversely affecting the outcome, or may even for them be resulting in a better outcome than if they limited themselves to 'the way'.

It always amazes me that some of my colleagues complain about the lack of time to teach, but then advocate in the next breath making it as difficult as possible for the candidate by insisting on a really narrow style criteria thereby enforcing a lot of unnecessary change.

[MrToad]

Are we back to the coaching thread?

I suspect that given enough time, all threads will eventually converge on the subjects being discussed there.

...they haven't got to shape themselves to fit through one shaped hole...

...which leads us to my new favourite visual metaphor for the IAM process:

[lordgrover]

Not sure silver is your best colour MrToad.

[ROG]

For those that find PP difficult ..... what did you do for the basic L test?

[MGF]

...Currently, the IAM's book How to be a Better Driver recommends only one steering technique - Pull Push (I am not going to describe each technique here).

I, and many of us, positively disagree wth this. While PP works well for most drivers in many situations, it is certainly not the best in all situations. The IAM says that PP is the only technique which Observers should teach or demonstrate, but supposedly accepts the use of other techniques so long as used appropriately.

How is an observer expected to pass on driving techniques they have not learned?

[Horse]

For those that find PP difficult ..... what did you do for the basic L test?

Are you agreeing with my point (quoting from the DiaMond web pages) that there's little to choose in driving style between L and AD?