Steering - again, what should be taught

[Zebedee]

one day the IAM will change its hard-to-fathom position to only promote PP. As good as PP is, the bulk of the posts above make a very strong case for a more flexible approach.

Let's hope that day comes soon! Though I wonder if it will take time, because British police driving schools evolve glacially.

What I find hard to fathom is the incredible reluctance to explore and evolve techniques. That's how best practice improves over time. If the IAM was in charge of medical training, all we'd get from our GP would be leeches

[sussex2]

Perhaps it is the very name pull push that is wrong.
It could sound to some as if you are opening a lock gate

I've been thinking about this and I think you're onto something.
"Pull" and "Push" imply a degree of force, which might have been of relevance way back in the mists of time of the first Roadcraft.
The first edition I have a copy of has a Jaguar saloon on the cover "NVB 348E", whether PAS equipped I don't know, though Triple S Dave might. Btw, loose insert with 7 pages of corrections provided. Also of note, this edition doesn't appear to consider that women ever drive cars!
Now, for any relatively modern car?
So, how might we now best describe this way of steering?

Names are important

[superplum]

The latest RoADAR Test guidance takes effect from 17 Mar. The guidance relating to steering will then be:

"Steering
This should be smooth and accurate at all times. It is important that the driver is in full control of the steering wheel and in most circumstances the best way to achieve this is with both hands in contact with the wheel. The pull push method described in Roadcraft will help with this."

Who's going to be first in finding faults with this?

[stefan einz]

The latest RoADAR Test guidance takes effect from 17 Mar. The guidance relating to steering will then be:

"Steering
This should be smooth and accurate at all times. It is important that the driver is in full control of the steering wheel and in most circumstances the best way to achieve this is with both hands in contact with the wheel. The pull push method described in Roadcraft will help with this."

Who's going to be first in finding faults with this?

Almost all good, but I'd like the last sentence to say:

"The steering methods described in Roadcraft will help with this."

[MGF]

That didn't take long.

[sussex2]

We should be on our guard against being pedantic or too relaxed about any method of handling a machine.
Some of those being taught will take the slightest instruction as gospel and others will interpret or omit items they don't favour.
Purely in my own opinion how a person 'puts on' and handles the machine will give a pretty good clue as to how things are going to go.

[GJD]

The latest RoADAR Test guidance takes effect from 17 Mar. The guidance relating to steering will then be:

"Steering
This should be smooth and accurate at all times. It is important that the driver is in full control of the steering wheel and in most circumstances the best way to achieve this is with both hands in contact with the wheel. The pull push method described in Roadcraft will help with this."

Who's going to be first in finding faults with this?

Almost all good, but I'd like the last sentence to say:

"The steering methods described in Roadcraft will help with this."

I'd vote for "...can help with this."

[hir]

Almost all good, but I'd like the last sentence to say:

"The steering methods described in Roadcraft will help with this."

Agreed, but let's be grateful for small mercies. These sort of changes usually move at a glacial pace and for RoSPA of all people to make this change feels like a quantum leap forward. Also, there are some refreshing changes to the wording of RoSPA's advice on bends and straight-lining. I think there maybe a new chief examiner, possibly. So, things are looking up for RoSPA, all we now need is for the IAM to follow suit.

[sussex2]

How much change can we expect in a risk averse society?
The no risk attitude is now becoming so ingrained that almost every aspect of our lives is governed by it.

[jont]

How much change can we expect in a risk averse society?
The no risk attitude is now becoming so ingrained that almost every aspect of our lives is governed by it.

Not entirely true. If we were genuinely risk averse there would be far more done to get incompetent drivers off the roads, rather than try to keep them going slowly enough they only injure, rather than kill people

More generally I'd agree we have got too risk averse as a society, but when politicians (and most of the public) are incapable of understanding basic science, never mind risk management, what do you expect?

[sussex2]

How much change can we expect in a risk averse society?
The no risk attitude is now becoming so ingrained that almost every aspect of our lives is governed by it.

Not entirely true. If we were genuinely risk averse there would be far more done to get incompetent drivers off the roads, rather than try to keep them going slowly enough they only injure, rather than kill people

More generally I'd agree we have got too risk averse as a society, but when politicians (and most of the public) are incapable of understanding basic science, never mind risk management, what do you expect?

Indeed!
My point was more that any organisation is going to be loathe to take the risk of changing something in the present climate; especially given how easily people look for compensation or attempt to sue.

[WhoseGeneration]

Not entirely true. If we were genuinely risk averse there would be far more done to get incompetent drivers off the roads, rather than try to keep them going slowly enough they only injure, rather than kill people

More generally I'd agree we have got too risk averse as a society, but when politicians (and most of the public) are incapable of understanding basic science, never mind risk management, what do you expect?

I do so agree with this.

[Horse]

How much change can we expect in a risk averse society?
The no risk attitude is now becoming so ingrained that almost every aspect of our lives is governed by it.

Not entirely true. If we were genuinely risk averse there would be far more done to get incompetent drivers off the roads, rather than try to keep them going slowly enough they only injure, rather than kill people

More generally I'd agree we have got too risk averse as a society, but when politicians (and most of the public) are incapable of understanding basic science, never mind risk management, what do you expect?

Indeed!
My point was more that any organisation is going to be loathe to take the risk of changing something in the present climate; especially given how easily people look for compensation or attempt to sue.

I qualified as an instructor for the MSF, a US organisation, in 1994. Half a day of the two week course was devoted to 'not being sued'. The gist was: have a syllabus based on proven techniques, and stick to it.

[vonhosen]

I qualified as an instructor for the MSF, a US organisation, in 1994. Half a day of the two week course was devoted to 'not being sued'. The gist was: have a syllabus based on proven techniques, and stick to it.

And when evidence exists that the chosen techniques can have adverse effects?

That's the problem as understanding etc evolves, it doesn't remain as static as some training methodology.

[Horse]

I qualified as an instructor for the MSF, a US organisation, in 1994. Half a day of the two week course was devoted to 'not being sued'. The gist was: have a syllabus based on proven techniques, and stick to it.

And when evidence exists that the chosen techniques can have adverse effects?

That's the problem as understanding etc evolves, it doesn't remain as static as some training methodology.

Much of the course content was based on scientific research to determine best practice.