Steering - again, what should be taught

[hir]

If you think you know best, then perhaps learning isn't for you.

This is one of those meaningless, throw away remarks that add nothing to the debate.

If one follows the logic of this argument to it's ultimate conclusion this assertion would apply to the hierarchy at IAM HQ. They believe they know what's best when it comes to steering technique, QED... learning isn't for them!

Meaningless.

[7db]

There's a branding issue that results from this weird fixation on a steering technique as well.

Whenever I mention advanced driving to people who aren't into it -- a common immediate question is whether "they make you drive like that <insert pull-push arms flapping>".

I'd much rather the sport were branded being about observation and planning rather than the mechanics of steering.

[Carbon Based]

It is interesting what the perception of this is.

From those with no awareness of any form of post test training it is usually a "what is that all about?" Nicely leading into a reply about observation and planning as mentioned above.

Its only a few that have perhaps heard or seen something (or get to flicking through HTBABD) that even mention steering.

[Horse]

If you think you know best, then perhaps learning isn't for you.

This is one of those meaningless, throw away remarks that add nothing to the debate.

If one follows the logic of this argument to it's ultimate conclusion this assertion would apply to the hierarchy at IAM HQ. They believe they know what's best when it comes to steering technique, QED... learning isn't for them!

Meaningless.

I'm proud of a [typed! It was that long ago!] letter from DSA telling me my views were 'not representative of UK trainers'.

That was a reply to me believing I knew best. I bellieved that from learning - and making a concerted effort to do so.

That's not to say that there's never going to be a new best, medical science is a good example of that process.

[Zebedee]

There's a branding issue that results from this weird fixation on a steering technique as well.

Whenever I mention advanced driving to people who aren't into it -- a common immediate question is whether "they make you drive like that <insert pull-push arms flapping>".

I'd much rather the sport were branded being about observation and planning rather than the mechanics of steering.

I agree 100%. In my experience, this is a significant problem for the IAM (reinforced by Clarkson calling the IAM "the wheel shufflers").

[MGF]

From the IAM point of view it isn't about what benefits the individual the most but having standards that deliver adequate results for most associates. In practice, the effect of this may be to reduce the efficacy of an individual's steering to get them through the test. From a coaching point of view that probably sounds absurd. For an organisation using a bunch of amateurs working at arm's length it might make more sense.

So, you are suggesting that the IAM has adopted a standard the effect of which may be to reduce the efficacy of an individual's steering, and that makes sense because they are using a bunch of amateurs working at arm's length.

That's just about the daftest suggestion I've heard yet. Not even the highest echelons of the powers that be at Chiswick would be daft enough to make that assertion.

When I got hold of my copy of HTBABD I brushed up on my PP prior to my first observed drive. I introduced some fixed grip because I had also read Roadcraft.

None of my observers would have known whether or not, in their unqualified opinions, my steering was better or worse than that which I had used prior to preparing for the IAM test.

You can call it daft but it is a reality that comes with HTBABD.

... pronouncements that may seem innocuous to some IAM members but which may have the effect of making advanced driving appear irrelevant to the public at large. ... "pull-push steering, I can't be bothered with all that shuffling. Is that what you teach? I can't be faffed with all that. Why would I want to do that?".

So you're not even sure of the scale of the perceived problem, just a possibility that it might exist. If that is the case it hardly calls for a campaign for change.

[MGF]

...For an IAM associate to put the effort into learning a new steering technique they would need to believe there was some potential benefit - a problem that needed fixing.

I was never convinced by the need to avoid BGOL. I was motivated to learn it because it was necessary for the test.

[hir]

When I got hold of my copy of HTBABD I brushed up on my PP prior to my first observed drive. I introduced some fixed grip because I had also read Roadcraft.

None of my observers would have known whether or not, in their unqualified opinions, my steering was better or worse than that which I had used prior to preparing for the IAM test.

Why would an observer be interested in what you did prior to preparing for the IAM test? They would be interested only in what you brought to the observed drives after brushing up with HTBABD and Roadcraft.

I don't follow the point you are trying to make.

[hir]

So you're not even sure of the scale of the perceived problem, just a possibility that it might exist. If that is the case it hardly calls for a campaign for change.

I suppose I should be gratified to see that you have elevated the status of our somewhat modest lack of willingness to endorse the IAM's stance on pull-push steering to that of a campaign. If only the IAM would take us as seriously.

We must now press on for complete victory at all costs.

[WhoseGeneration]

So, have any of those here who have put candidates in for IAM or RoADAR tests had them fail for steering technique?

[hir]

So, have any of those here who have put candidates in for IAM or RoADAR tests had them fail for steering technique?

Criticised yes, but never failed.

The criticism was, yes you've guessed it, not enough pull-push; much to the indignation of the associates concerned. They really couldn't see that the criticism was justified. I, and other members of my group, took issue with examiner concerned but as usual our protestations fell on deaf ears. His Staff Examiner, incidently, was sympathetic to our point of view.

[GJD]

...For an IAM associate to put the effort into learning a new steering technique they would need to believe there was some potential benefit - a problem that needed fixing.

I was never convinced by the need to avoid BGOL. I was motivated to learn it because it was necessary for the test.

That's a fair point. Part of my motivation for starting AD with RoSPA was to see if I could pass their test and that allowed me to ignore some of the silliness I was presented with. I suppose that's probably the case for a lot of associates. I would have thought it would be in the IAM's and RoSPA's interest (or at least in the interest of road safety) to concentrate on trying to help people improve their driving rather than trying to help them collect badges though. Just because some associates might be tolerant of needless rigidity because they have some motivation to look beyond it, doesn't automatically mean needless rigidity isn't a bad thing.

[vonhosen]

So, have any of those here who have put candidates in for IAM or RoADAR tests had them fail for steering technique?

Criticised yes, but never failed.

The criticism was, yes you've guessed it, not enough pull-push; much to the indignation of the associates concerned. They really couldn't see that the criticism was justified. I, and other members of my group, took issue with examiner concerned but as usual our protestations fell on deaf ears. His Staff Examiner, incidently, was sympathetic to our point of view.

Surely if it's one of the things you are being tested on (& it can therefore lead to lost marks) it could (& probably must have at some occasion) result in a cumulative lost marks that result in an unsuccessful test, when it perhaps wouldn't have been should marks not have been lost due to not doing pull/push as required.

[zadocbrown]

Do we have any idea how many candidates present with, ahem, seriously non-compliant steering? E.g. Making no effort to avoid crossed arms? I guess the numbers may be negligible.

It's probably easy to mark down someone who mainly PPs but with accidental lapses. More difficult if someone uses rotational consistently and effectively throughout. But it would be a rare case probably.

[Astraist]

What is it about "crossed arms" that you frown upon so much? If the driver uses it effectively and accomplishes large steering inputs by crossing his or her hands (while applying rotational steering), than I fail to see the problem.

In some countries, Israel included, Shuffling and Pull-Push can lead to a failure in the L test (Don't ask me why...) and rotational is the steering style advocated to learners. Nevertheless, many drivers still manage to use it quite effectively.