Tailgating.

[MGF]

Would you agree that the danger is more perceived than real?

It's clear that there are many more tailgating events than crashes, but i'm not sure that makes the tailgating fear unreal.

It is distressing because it is a loss of control

Herein lies the problem. The perception that it is necessary to control other driver"s driving to be safe. That doezn't apper to be a particularly 'advanced' way of driving.

- ceding your ability to be safe to the driver behind -- who may or may not be a trustworthy person.

That depends how you react to the tailgating.
The distress is a problem with the driver in front, not the tailgating driver.

[TripleS]

I would suggest that 'close following' would be defined as leaving less than the recommended HC distance from the vehicle in front, which is a considerable remove from tailgating. Look at lane 3, in particular, on any busy motorway and few, if any, are leaving a one second gap, leave alone a two second one. But I suspect that none of them would regard it as tailgating. That is an aggressive and deliberate manoeuvre designed to intimidate the driver in front. As for a definition: if you feel intimidated, or in a position where you have to suppress such a feeling, you're being tailgated!

Now that's where I'm not sure that I do agree with you.

My feeling is that a good deal of close following, and even some of what we call tailgating, is merely a bad habit that stems from impatience and a wish to get along faster by the tailgater, even though they still might not overtake when an opportunity becomes available. I'm not sure that there is necessarily an aggressive aspect to it.

[Horse]

How does the driver ahead know when you're tailgating (and so to be concerned) or in 'close contact' looking for an overtaking opportunity?

[waremark]

How does the driver ahead know when you're tailgating (and so to be concerned) or in 'close contact' looking for an overtaking opportunity?

Does it matter? In either case an appropriate response is to ease off and position to encourage an overtake.

[MGF]

The point is, contact position may be perceived as aggressive driving, that cedes another's safety to the driver making contact, and causing the driver in front to become distressed.

It is somewhat hypocritical to complain about tailgating and use a 'contact' position to overtake.

[Horse]

Thank you, MGF, more eloquent and succinct than I probably would have posted

[Gareth]

The point is, contact position may be perceived as aggressive driving, that cedes another's safety to the driver making contact, and causing the driver in front to become distressed.

It is somewhat hypocritical to complain about tailgating and use a 'contact' position to overtake.

Do you see any qualitative or quantitative difference in continuously following very closely versus moving closer then moving offside?

[7db]

The perception that it is necessary to control other driver"s driving to be safe. That doezn't apper to be a particularly 'advanced' way of driving.

You seem either to misunderstand or we disagree on what constitutes advanced driving.

One wishes to control one's own drive. To be responsible for one's own safety. To maintain one's own bubble. To not leave the most important thing about driving to chance or the actions of another. When one's own chosen safety bubble is breached -- regardless of whether that bubble is over-cautiously selected -- it can be distressing -- particularly if one lacks the ability to act to reestablish that bubble of safety.

[TripleS]

The point is, contact position may be perceived as aggressive driving, that cedes another's safety to the driver making contact, and causing the driver in front to become distressed.

It is somewhat hypocritical to complain about tailgating and use a 'contact' position to overtake.

Do you see any qualitative or quantitative difference in continuously following very closely versus moving closer then moving offside?

It's hard to explain, but I imagine most of us on this forum can generally recognise the difference between a driver who simply follows too closely for sustained periods, and one who closes up when an overtaking opportunity seems to be developing.

[Horse]

What is the time limit beyond which close becomes tailgating?

[michael769]

What is the time limit beyond which close becomes tailgating?

When it exceeds the amount of time necessary to assess that the perceived overtaking opportunity actually exists , and to commence the overtake or back.

In other words whenever one remains in the contact position in the hope that an overtaking opportunity might present itself.

[waremark]

Has anyone else noticed and been bothered by the illustrations on p 206 of the new Roadcraft? They seem to me to show an overtaking position about half a car's length behind the target - to me that looks a very vulnerable position, how long do you have to react if the target brakes? The words used about the overtaking position seem generally sensible, including: 'As you move closer to the vehicle in front the driver is likely to realise tha you want to overtake. Be careful not to intimidate the other driver or to appear aggressive by following too closely. This is dangerous and counter-productive. Following too closely may cause the other driver to speed up, making it more difficult to overtake."

[fungus]

Has anyone else noticed and been bothered by the illustrations on p 206 of the new Roadcraft? They seem to me to show an overtaking position about half a car's length behind the target - to me that looks a very vulnerable position

The illustrations do not tie up with the wording. I think it's a poor illustration which, if not viewed in conjunction with the wording could lead some to adopt that position which is way too close, and would result in more steering than necessary to move out, apart from the very vulnerable position that it places the following driver in.

[ericonabike]

If nothing else, this thread has perhaps shown the futility of the new 'tailgating' law. A populist measure that in practice is nigh-on impossible to police. Unless the lawyers manage to come up with a definition of 'tailgating' that is objective, rather than subjective...

[jont]

If nothing else, this thread has perhaps shown the futility of the new 'tailgating' law. A populist measure that in practice is nigh-on impossible to police. Unless the lawyers manage to come up with a definition of 'tailgating' that is objective, rather than subjective...

Other than speeding (and driving without license/insurance), aren't most driving offences subjective? ie one persons "making good progress" is anothers "driving without due care" etc?