Skid Pan

[ppjs]

I looked on the Skid Pan listing on this site for a facility in the Oxfordshire area and I noticed that Cadence is still listed. I don't know whether Cadence is still operating, but Hugh Noblett now lives in New Zealand - which is rather farther than I want to travel.

We used to go to Wroughton, but this has now closed. I regret this because the use of a cradle is so much better than a conventional skid pan (where the driver initiates the skid and then corrects it). I am frequently asked about skid pan training. We seem to be be poorly supplied with reasonably-priced facilities in the Thames Valley area.

Does anyone know a good introductory site? I have spent a day with Don Palmer at Bruntingthorpe. He is great fun and highly knowledgeable, but it ain't cheap. And when you factor in the new tyres..... What I am looking for is a recommendation for people just beginning to dip their toes in.

[martine]

There is a skid pan at Castle Combe but it's using slippery stuff rather than a cradle car. I believe Devon Driver Centre have one but that's quite a way from you.

[fungus]

Scotlands Northern Constabulary have apparently abandoned doing skid pan training due to three of their cars leaving the road on a particular bend. Apparently this was due to the drivers using conventional techniques when the back end stepped out. I can't remember why, but apparently it's better to let the on board computer take control in a vehicle fitted with stability control systems.

[mooncarrot]

Looking to do the same sort of thing Northamptonshire. Would appreciate any recommendations.

[zadocbrown]

Scotlands Northern Constabulary have apparently abandoned doing skid pan training due to three of their cars leaving the road on a particular bend. Apparently this was due to the drivers using conventional techniques when the back end stepped out. I can't remember why, but apparently it's better to let the on board computer take control in a vehicle fitted with stability control systems.

Rather a knee jerk reaction if it's as you say. Wouldn't they be better off looking at avoiding the loss of control in the first place?

[martine]

Scotlands Northern Constabulary have apparently abandoned doing skid pan training due to three of their cars leaving the road on a particular bend. Apparently this was due to the drivers using conventional techniques when the back end stepped out. I can't remember why, but apparently it's better to let the on board computer take control in a vehicle fitted with stability control systems.

Yes if a car has ESP then you point the steering where you want the car to go and the computer will help...not counter-steer to correct when the back-end steps out. The police drivers should have been taught this.

[Astraist]

There is a skid pan at Castle Combe but it's using slippery stuff rather than a cradle car. I believe Devon Driver Centre have one but that's quite a way from you.

Irregardless of the specific skid pan and it's location, the skid pans which employ the "cradle car", better known as the "skid car" - is much preferable to the traditional "skid pan", which uses an epoxy-clad surface which is much more slippery, to a none-realistic degree.

[waremark]

Scotlands Northern Constabulary have apparently abandoned doing skid pan training due to three of their cars leaving the road on a particular bend. Apparently this was due to the drivers using conventional techniques when the back end stepped out. I can't remember why, but apparently it's better to let the on board computer take control in a vehicle fitted with stability control systems.

Yes if a car has ESP then you point the steering where you want the car to go and the computer will help...not counter-steer to correct when the back-end steps out. The police drivers should have been taught this.

Martin, I agree that if your car has ESP and it activates (in the words of Roadcraft, and this is all that Roadcraft says on the subject) it is crucial that you steer in the direction that you want to go. However, I don't necessarily agree that this means you should not counter-steer if the back-end steps out - the advice should simply be to look and steer in the direction you want to go. That might or might not involve counter-steering. In the case of understeer in particular it is very different advice from that which would apply in a car which does not have ESP.

I feel confident that police drivers are taught this - and that the focus of their training on observation anticipation and planning should keep them away from loss of control in the first place. However, if we are talking in particular about police drivers in Scotland, they do often have to cope with extremely adverse driving conditions, where the limits of grip can be crossed even at low speeds and with sensitive use of the controls.

[waremark]

There is a skid pan at Castle Combe but it's using slippery stuff rather than a cradle car. I believe Devon Driver Centre have one but that's quite a way from you.

Irregardless of the specific skid pan and it's location, the skid pans which employ the "cradle car", better known as the "skid car" - is much preferable to the traditional "skid pan", which uses an epoxy-clad surface which is much more slippery, to a none-realistic degree.

And if you are going to be driving a car equipped with modern electronic safety systems it is essential that the cradle car should have such systems.

My IAM group has used cradle car training from ATC at North Weald near Harlow, Essex:

http://www.driver-training.co.uk/Servic ... rience.htm

But after any normal amount of skid car training, do not necessarily expect to be able to recover from an unexpected skid within the space available on a public road! Best avoid the skid in the first place.

[michael769]

The biggest risk with skid pan training is overconfidence.

Like any driving skill it needs practice to maintain it, something that is not really practicable on public roads. This can create a situation where a driver believed that a skid pan session a couple of years ago leaves him well equipped to deal with skids, only to find that those perceived skills have decayed due to disuse when he needs them most,

Don't get me wrong skid pan work is useful, as it lets us experience what it feels like to lose control of a car and it does provide useful tools to use in a crisis, but unless we can invest in regular refreshers we should not view it as a "get out of a crash" card. The biggest lesson to take away from any skid pan session is the stuff on skid avoidance.