Driving automatics

[GJD]

I have help: a voice in my head, from almost 30 years ago, saying "If I see your left leg move I'll hit it so hard I'll break it and then you won't be able to crash the car" [into the wall of the skid pan].

Ever find you've terrified your left leg into staying put so much that when you hop out of the auto back into a manual you stall at the first junction you come to?

[Horse]

I spent 2.5 months this summer driving autos and had to concentrate back in manuals! Left/right side of the wheel indicator stalks didn't help . . .

[TripleS]

What is it about the spelling of the word pedal that seems to confuse. English is such an easy language. We seem to have a few who are peddling their wares on the forum.

Similarly, there are some on the forum who choose to "break" when they want to stop.
Back on topic; I've had several autos, none of them modern, and have been quite happy with them. I took the HPC entry course in a Volvo 850T5 auto.

I've had three automatics: a 1962 Jaguar 3.8 Mark 2 saloon, a 1980 Jaguar Series 3 XJ6 4.2, and a 1984 Jaguar Series 3 Sovereign V12. I felt no difficulty with any of them when carrying out low speed manoeuvres. Unless there was a steep gradient involved, it was just a matter of selecting D or R, letting the idling revs provide propulsion, and controlling the movement with the brakes. As far as I was concerned they were all perfectly OK, but I've no doubt more recent designs are better.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I was driving an auto today. They're all pretty much the same. You use one foot (unless trying to do really clever stuff), and just modulate its efforts. Squeeze gently on throttle to start with, press harder once moving. Simples!

[Pontoneer]

I've been driving automatic Mercedes all my adult life ( since the 1970s ) and , despite learning in a manual car , I would never go back to driving manual on a daily basis - not when an automatic is fully competent and actually safer since it leaves you free to concentrate on other aspects of driving besides the mechanics of propelling the car along the road , and will inhibit silly mistakes like selecting a gear out of its speed range which can be done in a manual .

For those who crave the need to shift manually and slip clutches ( or better still and more satisfying learn to change manually without the clutch ) why not take it to the extreme and get a car with manual mixture control and ignition timing ? My old car has these features but I manage without messing constantly with them .

Having driven all sorts of Mercedes from 1950's to present day models , they have come a long way from the "jerk-o-Matic' boxes of the early 1960's , but the automatics of the 80's and 90's were probably the best : by this time they had become very smooth changing and well engineered , but had not fallen foul of the electronic nanny governing what you can and cannot do .

I'll take a simple two-mode automatic , with staggered gate selector as pioneered by Mercedes as far back as 1963 in the 230SL , which allows fully automatic or free selection of the gears on demand , but does not cut engine power the moment you touch the brake pedal . Modern autos must be so fragile that the computers step in and cut power the moment any contact with the brake pedal is touched - even when manoeuvring at low speeds ; inconvenient if trying to reverse up a steep incline or move on snow or ice ; worse when trying to bring in a part throttle downshift before finishing with the brakes on the approach to a bend - on the older boxes you can smoothly bring in power whilst braking to obtain a smooth downshift , then bring back the selector to lock in the lower gear before powering through and out of the bend - try doing that in one of the newer cars ( or with a perfectly good foot tucked uselessly away under the seat - inviting DVT ) .

As for those who advocate leaving a perfectly good foot unused - why ? Would an able bodied person hop down the street ? Two pedals are made for humans who have two feet . If you have been driving manuals then get out in an automatic and practice , practice , practice : that's what I did and I use my left foot to brake autos and my right ( mostly ) to brake manuals without even needing to think about it .

My current fleet includes an S203 C270CDI with electronically governed box , a W126 500SEL with a conventional 4 speed auto mated to the 5 litre V8 ( a glorious combination ) and a W105 219 from 1957 which is a four speed manual with column change and LHD to add to the mix . I hate driving the S203 primarily because of the electronic nanny but it is a daily driver and cheap to run , the W126 is much more fun , can be hustled along when I'm in the mood or driven sedately otherwise ; the old car was my first one and I have managed to keep it all these years , but now awaits restoration , although it still starts and drives OK .

Automatics can be fun , and in some cases faster than the manual equivalent . It is just a pity that most people dismiss them and few take the trouble to learn to drive them properly ; for these people there is a whole world of undiscovered motoring pleasure out there .

[martine]

Nice selection of cars and each to their own but I'd say a manual ultimately gives you more control rather than trying to second guess the auto and modifying your driving style to make it do what you want.

[Pontoneer]

I wouldn't say that I am modifying my driving style any more than manual drivers modify theirs by making one foot perform double duty by alternating between two pedals and using the left foot to kick at the clutch instead of to brake ; whilst also having to take a hand off the wheel to stir the pot every time they negotiate a hazard .

Two feet = two pedals = one to go , one to stop is much simpler and more intuitive in my opinion ; it really just boils down to what you are used to and what is normal and intuitive to you .

I do drive manuals as well as automatics , including older ones with non synchro 'crash' gearboxes , and was taught double declutching and clutchless changing at an early age by my father who was an HGV and PSV driver before I was introduced to AD .

Other than in some classics where the gear change is part of the charm of the vehicle , or for off road or towing duties , I would still choose automatic every time for normal road driving .

[ericonabike]

Having now had some experience of driving autos, I return to the thread. Not driving, as it happens, Mercedes - it seems that only half the fleet is made up of Mercs, both C class and E class - but Skoda Superbes.

I've now driven around 800 miles, and in that time have only had one incident - when I hit the brake with my left foot whilst going for the 'clutch'. Doh! Fortunately I didn't have a client in the car at the time. As long as I put my left foot on the rest at the start, and keep it there, driving it comes quite naturally. As to a preference, I still don't like having control of the gear I'm in taken away from me. But they can be driven smoothly enough, which is what matters in my job. I admit, the idea of consciously using left foot to brake had not occurred to me, but I can see some logic to it. I'll give it a go [sans passengers] when I next use the car.

[GJD]

Having now had some experience of driving autos, I return to the thread. Not driving, as it happens, Mercedes - it seems that only half the fleet is made up of Mercs, both C class and E class - but Skoda Superbes.

I've now driven around 800 miles, and in that time have only had one incident - when I hit the brake with my left foot whilst going for the 'clutch'. Doh!

That's normal. Everybody does that

As to a preference, I still don't like having control of the gear I'm in taken away from me.

You may well still have a fair amount of control, just not involving a pedal under your left foot. Is there a manual position for the gearstick, and/or steering wheel buttons/paddles?

[Horse]

x

I've now driven around 800 miles, and in that time have only had one incident - when I hit the brake with my left foot whilst going for the 'clutch'. Doh! Fortunately I didn't have a client in the car at the time. As long as I put my left foot on the rest at the start, and keep it there, driving it comes quite naturally. As to a preference, I still don't like having control of the gear I'm in taken away from me. But they can be driven smoothly enough, which is what matters in my job.

*snigger* (in a friendly way)

Re-read the thread

[waremark]

In response to Pontoneer:

I have not come across the feature of cutting engine power when the brake is touched. In a modern Merc I have used accelerator and brake simultaneously for slow manoeuvering over a bump. Can you better describe what happens in your C class? Like you I enjoy left foot braking, which is particularly pleasant in the transition from brakes to gas entering bends on rural roads.

I consider that modern autos give excellent control of gears and in most rational ways simply do a better job - faster, smoother, more economical, always ready, and lower workload. I also agree that there can be satisfaction in attempting to get the best results from them. However, and it is a very big however, for me a large part of the satisfying interaction between man and machine in a manual car comes from trying to achieve the best use of clutch and gearbox, and so I find driving an automatic less satisfying. For that reason I have recently bought a manual sports car to replace a dual-clutch one. While I understand thje analogy with an ignition control, I don't think that use of an ignition control would give anything like the satisfaction of using a manual clutch and gearbox, and it would also involve giving up far more of the other benefits of modern cars.

[waremark]

Having now had some experience of driving autos, I return to the thread. Not driving, as it happens, Mercedes - it seems that only half the fleet is made up of Mercs, both C class and E class - but Skoda Superbes.

What engine do the Superbs have?

Presumably they have dual clutch DSG gearboxes, rather than traditional automatics (though I think the V6 petrol comes with a traditional auto). If so you might find the Mercedes a fraction different, particularly in manoeuvering.

What do you think of the Superb? I considered one, but my family vetoed it because of very much outdated ideas about the brand.

[exportmanuk]

Auto Cars with a fluid clutch tend to be easier to maneuver at low speed as Pontoneer says you can have a foot on the brake and on the accelerator a the same time. Allowing very fine control and something I miss on my present car when parking in a very tight garage. I now have a Citroen with effectively computer controlled conventional clutch & gearbox. It is very discerning to suddenly find you are free wheeling when you have covered the brake pedal to show a brake light to a following vehicle. Flappy paddle gear changes are easy and have the advantage of keeping both hands on the wheel.

Reversing into confined spaces takes some getting used to.

I drive both autos and standard cars and change my driving accordingly. Autos left foot braking Manuals Right foot.
And of course motorcycles are another story again.

[fungus]

Nice selection of cars and each to their own but I'd say a manual ultimately gives you more control rather than trying to second guess the auto and modifying your driving style to make it do what you want.

Definitely.

I've now driven around 800 miles, and in that time have only had one incident - when I hit the brake with my left foot whilst going for the 'clutch'.

I test drove a Skoda Rapid with a seven speed DSG box about ten months ago, and in no less than five miles I must have gone for the clutch as many times, actually hitting the brake on two occasions. Fortunately, there was no one close enough to be affected by my rather erratic control.

[waremark]

Nice selection of cars and each to their own but I'd say a manual ultimately gives you more control rather than trying to second guess the auto and modifying your driving style to make it do what you want.

Definitely.

Why do you say that? If you are talking about a modern auto with good manual features such as a DSG you could argue the opposite. It will change up or down on command far quicker than a manual, without requiring you to take a hand off the wheel, and so allows you to fit in more gear changes exactly when you want them. It is not only because so many drivers cannot change gear well that virtually all upmarket manufacturers including those of extreme drivers' cars have abandoned manual gearboxes.

As mentioned above, I have recently chosen a manual, but not to get more control.