Clutch less gear change...

[revian]

On another thread Pontoneer wrote...

For those who crave the need to shift manually and slip clutches ( or better still and more satisfying learn to change manually without the clutch )

Without the clutch...I do t suppose it's necessarily the best way with a car having synchromesh.... But in pursuit of the flawless gear change what is the best way to learn to do this? My RoSPA examiner told me he could do it and I've read this and that... Any advice out there... Dare I say distance tutoring? Or is it a stone best left unturned?

Ian
Edit for clarity...

[jont]

Hire car

[revian]

Hire car

was wondering...
I suppose I'm looking, in essence, for the absolute best way to rev match...

[Gareth]

I found the clutch biting point sinking below the floor strongly encouraged me to synchronise engine speed to road speed for the selected gear

When it comes down to it, the best way to rev-match is accurately ...

If you want to practice, pick a speed that is comfortable in 3rd and 4th gears, note the engine speed in both, then practice changing between them. You may need to be off the throttle with no engine braking to get the gearstick into neutral, then it's a question of adjusting the engine speed fairly quickly and attempting to select the chosen gear.

[fungus]

I haven't needed to do a clutch less gear change for in excess of forty years now, since the days when I owned an old Austin A35 on which the clutch rod used to break with a certain amount of frequency.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I was teaching a pupil to rev match, and I happened to mention that it was possible to change gear without using the clutch. Having said that it could be done, I then had to demonstrate it. It is as Gareth said, with no engine braking come off the throttle, move the gear lever to neutral, and then raise the engine revs as you would when rev matching, eg. double de clutching, then as the revs match the road speed for the selected gear, move the gear lever into the selected gear. Voila, simples.

[revian]

Voila, simples.

Always is when you can do it.. I've tried once or twice but don't think the dentist will fix the tooth damage...

Easier with petrol or diesel or just skill? (Mines torquey diesel)

[waremark]

How much wear to the synchro is likely to be caused when practising this?

[Nigel]

I have done it in the past mainly when clutch cables broke, not good for gearbox and very hard to down change, not something I would practice now do not see the point or value of teaching it

[Pontoneer]

As others have said , hire cars , company cars or works vans best to practice it in .

I'd guess lower revving Diesels are possibly easier to master the technique in - the main thing is not to force anything .

Probably best to start with an unhurried change from 3rd to 4th . Get up to speed in 3rd , back off throttle and gear will slip easily into neutral , allow revs to drop to match for 4th and 'feeling' very gently on lever , it will slip easily into 4th when correct revs are reached . It is definitely easier to master clutchless up shifts first , then practice raising the revs through a change to do a downshift . Once you get really good at it you will be able to go up and down the box at will and even left foot brake whilst shifting down without the clutch !

I practice the technique every now and again for fun ( usually in works vans ) but have only once had to do it years ago when the clutch cable snapped in an air cooled VW Beetle I was driving .

The technique does take a bit of practice , my dad taught me it after many years driving trucks and buses with heavy clutches and in which it was widely used . Expect to crunch a few gears at first but it will come right .

It is good to first master a slow , well timed gear change before attempting this , learning to double declutch helps in this regard as it breaks the gear change down into two parts , and you know you're doing it right if you get to drive something with a non synchro box ( quite a lot of cars as recent as the 1960s had non synchro 1st and double declutching smoothly down into 1st whilst rolling up to a junction in something like a Triumph Herald can be quite satisfying ) .

[Graham Wright]

I had a Humber Super Snipe (mansion on wheels!) which I used to commute. Leaving work one day with a passenger, the clutch pedal was offering no resistance. We pushed up to around 5m.p.h. then jumped in and engaged first. It was a three speed box with overdrive on two.

That was ok up to the traffic lights but then had to resort to starting in gear. Big engine but still not nice.

Over the next 30 miles, I became quite an expert! Needs must.

[exportmanuk]

When I drive the wifes car I often change up clutchless but down is more difficult. I learned to drive in a morris minor ( my car) and a Vauxhall Viva ( instructors car) back in the early 70s. The Morris was a rod clutch and a real pain you learned to get the timing right quickly . As I remember the vauxhalls around this time were quite easy to master clutchless changes, others not quite so. I thought the Talbot Alpine was a pig. In the 80s I had a 3.5 Rover SD1 that the clutch fulcrum broke in the middle of Manchester on a Saturday morning managed to drive that home ( only 4 miles) so I could fix it. Guess I did not do the starter much good though.

If you can make smooth changes without the clutch then your clutched changes should be like silk. And its a handy skill to have incase of mechanical failure.

[revian]

.. 3 to 4 fairly straightforward... No crunches or noise but a feeling of a small hump on the way in...?

It's reminding me to take my time changing gear normally...

[michael769]

but a feeling of a small hump on the way in...?

That's the baulk ring forcing you to slow the shift down enough to give the syncro unit time to match the shaft speeds for you. It's a sign that the revs were not matched up well enough, but you must have been fairly close or your would have felt it as a resistance (or heard the sycnro unit crunch).

[sussex2]

When I drive the wifes car I often change up clutchless but down is more difficult. I learned to drive in a morris minor ( my car) and a Vauxhall Viva ( instructors car) back in the early 70s. The Morris was a rod clutch and a real pain you learned to get the timing right quickly . As I remember the vauxhalls around this time were quite easy to master clutchless changes, others not quite so. I thought the Talbot Alpine was a pig. In the 80s I had a 3.5 Rover SD1 that the clutch fulcrum broke in the middle of Manchester on a Saturday morning managed to drive that home ( only 4 miles) so I could fix it. Guess I did not do the starter much good though.

If you can make smooth changes without the clutch then your clutched changes should be like silk. And its a handy skill to have incase of mechanical failure.

'I thought the Talbot Alpine was a pig'
Can't disagree with you there but reckon the Avenger took the prize.