Road positioning, cyclist ahead

[revian]

Would a protected Lane without spreading it across the road encourage a safer flow?

Quite possibly, provided that it continues into the road ahead.

As the road widened they pulled up three abreast blocking any attempt by a motorist to overtake them. They continued to ride in this fashion through the town until the speed limit changed to 40 at the southern end of the town. In fact at the traffic lights 3/4 of the way through the town they took ages to get going as they were talking. To me, this was a blatant attempt to.

Incomplete or bitty cycle lanes are a pain to drivers and cyclist... Painted-on-the-road uncertainty..

Wareham... Yup... west from me at Weymouth... Did some of my RoSPA training there. Some interesting back streets...

[jont]

encouraging them to assemble at the front of the queue,

I cycle but in the quieter places of home or off road on holiday... But the pictures of London (eg) seem to show a wide row of cyclists on the 'start line' with the problems (real or imagined) referred to. Is the ASL in its current form the best form? Would a protected Lane without spreading it across the road encourage a safer flow?

Nope. I think I'd look at the dutch model and remove all the paint. That way you remove the idea of "yours" and "mine" in terms of roadspace and encourage people to share.

[revian]

Jont... That sounds reasonable... Folk tend to let us down a bit on 'reasonable' bit sometimes..

[jont]

Oh dear, it seems the ASA doesn't like cyclists either
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572
"Furthermore, we were concerned that whilst the cyclist was more than 0.5 metres from the kerb, they appeared to be located more in the centre of the lane when the car behind overtook them and the car almost had to enter the right lane of traffic.

"Therefore, for those reasons we concluded the ad was socially irresponsible and likely to condone or encourage behaviour prejudicial to health and safety."

Hmmmm.....

[jcochrane]

Oh dear, it seems the ASA doesn't like cyclists either
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572
"Furthermore, we were concerned that whilst the cyclist was more than 0.5 metres from the kerb, they appeared to be located more in the centre of the lane when the car behind overtook them and the car almost had to enter the right lane of traffic.

"Therefore, for those reasons we concluded the ad was socially irresponsible and likely to condone or encourage behaviour prejudicial to health and safety."

Hmmmm.....

Words fail.

[michael769]

The problem is that the Highway Code is lagging behind current thinking in cycling particularly with regard to the use of the primary position which goes directly against the highway code rules requiring cyclists to keep to the left.

This is a big issue as the HC is the main means by which the public (including sadly many cyclists) understand what is and is not appropriate behavior for cyclists. The ASA adjudication merely reflects the inevitable confusion and conflict that this creates, this will not improve until the HC is brought up to date (and even then years of poor advice will take a long time to be overcome in the public consciousness).

I do agree with them on the helmet issue though. While I understand and approve of Cycling Scotland's desire to make cycling more accessible, such accessibility should not be at the cost of encouraging people to put themselves needlessly at risk.

[revian]

Surely only an electric car should have been used

[sussex2]

The problem is that the Highway Code is lagging behind current thinking in cycling particularly with regard to the use of the primary position which goes directly against the highway code rules requiring cyclists to keep to the left.

This is a big issue as the HC is the main means by which the public (including sadly many cyclists) understand what is and is not appropriate behavior for cyclists. The ASA adjudication merely reflects the inevitable confusion and conflict that this creates, this will not improve until the HC is brought up to date (and even then years of poor advice will take a long time to be overcome in the public consciousness).

I do agree with them on the helmet issue though. While I understand and approve of Cycling Scotland's desire to make cycling more accessible, such accessibility should not be at the cost of encouraging people to put themselves needlessly at risk.

'this will not improve until the HC is brought up to date'

Strangely most of our neighbouring countries have done this in the last decade or so; particularly as regards pedestrian and bicycle priorities.
The UK HC is still in the 80s mindset of the car goes first in my opinion.

[ericonabike]

No doubt these measures were introduced in order to provide better safety for cyclists, and they might be quite effective in achieving that. On the other hand it can look like preferential treatment for cyclists, encouraging them to assemble at the front of the queue, ahead of the traffic.

Ermmm...cyclists are traffic?

[TripleS]

No doubt these measures were introduced in order to provide better safety for cyclists, and they might be quite effective in achieving that. On the other hand it can look like preferential treatment for cyclists, encouraging them to assemble at the front of the queue, ahead of the traffic.

Ermmm...cyclists are traffic?

OK, non-paying traffic.

To be honest, I hadn't really thought about whether or not cyclists should be regarded as traffic. To me, traffic means mechanically propelled vehicles, though I'm not sure as to the definition and I'm not much bothered either way.

To me the important thing is that everybody should receive proper consideration and respect, so I'm inclined to support Jon's feeling that we ought to get rid of a lot of the road markings, and cut out the attempts at segregation. The current approach might have a degree of merit and yield some safety benefits, but it inevitably creates a degree of 'them versus us' thinking, and this is bad.

Edit: Having just looked at definitions, it reminds me that we do talk about 'pedestrian traffic' so it's not just confined to vehicles. It can cover anything from going places on our own two feet, to something with a fair few wheels. Fair enough.

But I still think cycles should be registered and taxed, and cyclists should have insurance, and an identifying number on their backs, so that wrongdoers can be tracked down and suitably punished - like would happen to me if I ever did anything wrong while dawdling about on the roads.

[GJD]

Oh dear, it seems the ASA doesn't like cyclists either
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25926572
"Furthermore, we were concerned that whilst the cyclist was more than 0.5 metres from the kerb, they appeared to be located more in the centre of the lane when the car behind overtook them and the car almost had to enter the right lane of traffic.

"Therefore, for those reasons we concluded the ad was socially irresponsible and likely to condone or encourage behaviour prejudicial to health and safety."

Hmmmm.....

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can just about see where they're coming from with the PC helmet stuff (though I've no time for their nonsense there). But the comment about road positioning and "almost had to enter the right lane of traffic" is terrifying.

I commend Cycling Scotland for the calm and patient tone of their response. I'd have been straight round to the ASA with a kneecap mallet and a bomb.

"Cycling Scotland fully intends to pursue the ASA Council’s Independent Review process open to us." I wish them good luck.

Gobsmacked.

[jont]

Not sure whether this should be in here or the "silly boy" thread about inappropriate sentences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25949342

[trashbat]

Not sure whether this should be in here or the "silly boy" thread about inappropriate sentences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25949342

I lived there until recently, and know the road well. I don't mean to excuse the driver(s) or place the blame with the victim, but it's not a road that the sensible would cycle on - on a par with the cycle lanes on the A34, IMO, and perhaps worse in some respects. I say this having regularly commuted by bike on many of the more challenging roads in the area.

[sussex2]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01 ... _hp_ref=uk

Given I posted the link I've watched it a fair few times and have come to this conclusion:

That these 'bike boxes' are at very best potentially dangerous and guaranteed to cause conflict; certainly as a cyclist I would feel little or no feeling of protection from one.

Aside from this I have a strong suspicion that the video has been edited or staged. I'm no expert so can only say suspicion.
It's far from certain who hit who first in the juvenile spat. I find it odd that the cyclist flees the scene with a degree of 'sparkle'. I wonder why?

That's my tuppence worth.

[Custom24]

But I still think cycles should be registered and taxed, and cyclists should have insurance, and an identifying number on their backs, so that wrongdoers can be tracked down and suitably punished - like would happen to me if I ever did anything wrong while dawdling about on the roads.

Does the wink icon at the end of that mean you are being sarcastic, or do you really think any of this?