ADUK Archive

Hi all,

I'm wondering how others deal with variable hard shoulder such as on the M62 scheme. This appears to have stretches where the hard shoulder is in use, then often not too far later is marked as "junction (whatever) only" before closing between the off and on slips.

My observation of others is that it's very lightly used, particularly when the traffic is freely moving. Because of relatively slow traffic in lane 1 (counting the hard shoulder as 0 -- what is it labelled by RPUs?), then much of the traffic ends up in 1/2/3 as normal.

Finally, has anyone any experience of the enforcement perspective? A strict view might be that drivers should move left whenever the hard shoulder's available and then move right when it becomes limited to a junction (unless taking that junction).

Ta.

There are the schemes on the M42 and now recently near Bristol (M4/M5).

If the traffic is light they normally keep the hard-shoulder 'closed'. If it's open then I often make use of it if it enables me to make better progress. I don't think any traffic pol would be keen to pull anyone for not using it if it was open.

On a related note I recently witnessed a situation on the M4 J18 where a lane was closed with a red X on the gantry. I was queuing on the slip and I couldn't believe how many vehicles carried straight on past the X (may be 30 in 2 mins). Is it ignorance or impatience?

The reason it was closed was apparent a little further on where there had been low speed shunt leaving 2 vehicles stranded. Of course the drivers that had transgressed the red X then had to merge. I wanted to see what would happen when the traffic police or H.A. turned up but sadly my queue didn't hold me up long enough!

The lanes are designated 'LBS' - Lane Below Signal, numbered from the nearside upwards eg LBS1.

I have use M42 where they use hard shoulder and appears to be used as an undertaking lane when lanes 123 are moving slowly people move left and fly up hard shoulder just time before a major incedent I guess

Nigel wrote:I have use M42 where they use hard shoulder and appears to be used as an undertaking lane when lanes 123 are moving slowly people move left and fly up hard shoulder just time before a major incedent I guess

If the hard shoulder is open it's quite legal to use it and 'undertake' if the other lanes are in queues and moving slower.

The M42 hard-shoulder running has an excellent safety record - better than when it was just 3 lanes - that's why it's being spread to other motorways as a cost effective way of increasing capacity.

martine wrote:

Nigel wrote:I have use M42 where they use hard shoulder and appears to be used as an undertaking lane when lanes 123 are moving slowly people move left and fly up hard shoulder just time before a major incedent I guess

If the hard shoulder is open it's quite legal to use it and 'undertake' if the other lanes are in queues and moving slower.

The M42 hard-shoulder running has an excellent safety record - better than when it was just 3 lanes - that's why it's being spread to other motorways as a cost effective way of increasing capacity.

Is that right, I thought it was undertaking and not allowed when you move from lane on the right to a left lane to undertake,
From what I understand if you are in the left lane and the traffic in the right is moving slower than you, you can pass but not deliberately move left to pass, or opt to move to the left to get past which is what I saw,

I have to admit that I find it uncomfortable using the hard shoulder when it's open. The distance that it's open is often short enough that you find yourself merging right again, and since so much other slow traffic is already to the right, it's easier to be to the right of them, too.

Nigel wrote: Is that right, I thought it was undertaking and not allowed when you move from lane on the right to a left lane to undertake,
From what I understand if you are in the left lane and the traffic in the right is moving slower than you, you can pass but not deliberately move left to pass, or opt to move to the left to get past which is what I saw,

Yes but it's a question of degree...the hard shoulder is opened to help traffic flow...anyone using it has to move left at some point. I really can't see a traffic police pulling someone in these circumstances unless it was dangerous - can you?

I do not think its a degree at all, it's either legal or not, and wether your get nicked for it, doesn't mean it's right. A bit like stopping on a ped crossing it just is not right but hardly likely to get stopped for it .If you deliberately move 1 or 2 lanes to left to get passed a vehicle on the right appart from the anger it causes and implications. What about breakdowns, accidents how they be dealt with?

Nigel wrote:I do not think its a degree at all, it's either legal or not, and wether your get nicked for it, doesn't mean it's right. A bit like stopping on a ped crossing it just is not right but hardly likely to get stopped for it .If you deliberately move 1 or 2 lanes to left to get passed a vehicle on the right appart from the anger it causes and implications. What about breakdowns, accidents how they be dealt with?

But as I said, if the hard shoulder opens, you have to move left at some point to make use of it. I agree weaving between lanes would be rightly frowned up by a watching traffic police but moving left and then 'undertaking' as long as it's done carefully shouldn't be a problem and is quite legal.

If someone breaks down in the live hard shoulder, the cameras placed every few hundred metres pick up a stationary vehicle and automatically trigger the overhead signs to close the lane and put warnings up. The system seems to work and the number of KSIs on the M42 has gone down since hard-shoulder running was put in many years ago.

I heard a talk by the head of the Highways Agency recently, he said the system has proved so successful and safe that the M2 (I think) is going to have live running on all lanes as a matter of course. Their research indicates the system as being: "at least as safe as normal hard-shoulder plus 3 lane running".

I think we're have to agree to disagree undertaking is not legal, and moving to left lane to help with flow is different to moving to the left lane then shooting past everyone.but I can see we're not about to agree on this.

Instead of the question of the legality of overtaking on the left on the live hard shoulder, what about the converse (legal) question: staying in lane 2 instead of moving left into lane 1 (the hard shoulder)? Is that "middle-lane driving"? (I suspect trafpol have far better things to do, but anyway....)

Its not just the M2, there's a whole raft of motorways being converted to all lanes running (ALR) under the new name of 'SMART' motorways, recognising the management aspect.

+1 for the M42 system. It is invoked, as I understand it, when traffic builds up and a max speed below 70 is set. This means that although the max speed is reduced, traffic flow is increased as all lanes are used, rather than there being a 'lane 3 queue' which is otherwise the case. At lower speeds, all lanes are 'equal' and there is no longer the seemingly overwhelming desire to get into lane 3 for the sake of perhaps a five minute reduction in a two hour journey. I can well believe that safety is improved as a result.

If a driver is able to 'fly' up the hard shoulder relative to other free flowing traffic. either the variable limit is wrong or he is speeding.

I use the HS as an on-slip if not leaving. That is, I try to merge early in heavy free flowing traffic.