"only a fool"…………

[Graham Wright]

This always struck me as a good maxim.

It would be good for a sticker in the back window.

Does one exist?

[Silk]

This always struck me as a good maxim.

It would be good for a sticker in the back window.

Does one exist?

One of my pet hates is stickers in back windows. Dealerships stickers in particular.

On the other hand, they do give you a clue as to the type of driver you're following. For one thing, the importance they place on knowing what's behind them.

Perhaps "only a fool..." wouldn't take it out and bin it at the earliest opportunity. If a dealer ignores my demand not to put one on in the first place, I remove it immediately and ceremoniously shove it in the salesman's bin. He is then more than welcome to transfer it to another orifice of his choosing.

Roll on October, when there will be no necessity to have any sickers on car windows.

[Zebedee]

It's interesting how poorly this little ditty has worked. On the motorway, for example, how many cars maintain a 2-second following distance?

A safe following distance must be one of the most important things for safety - arguably the most important - yet it's not something that sticks for many people after they pass their L-test. Perhaps its importance is lost amongst all the other things, such as parking, with which learners are trying to grapple.

[martine]

A safe following distance must be one of the most important things for safety - arguably the most important - yet it's not something that sticks for many people after they pass their L-test.

Quite agree - I wonder how many crashes annually would be avoided if everyone kept the space in front to 2+ secs...quite shocking really. It's such a simple thing and yet so widely ignored for no benefit I'm aware of.

[waremark]

One of my pet hates is stickers in back windows. Dealerships stickers in particular.

Yet another thing on which we disagree! I generally leave dealership stickers in my rear window - I particularly like my most recent one which looks classy to me.

[TheInsanity1234]

I have never really understood the whole following distance issue and why there is a "2-second rule" because in my mind, this only really serves to encourage that frame of mind that "if I am following at this distance, I must be a safe driver" even when conditions don't encourage it.

I would just guess that a decent following distance would be:
Minimum number of car lengths = (speed limit / 10) + 1
For example, the speed limit is 70, so the minimum following distance should be 8 car lengths?
(I suppose the government need to keep it simple for those who got their licence out of a cereal box).

In fact, have any of you noticed that in some places on the motorway, there are chevrons painted on the road and you have to follow someone with at least 2 of those in between you and the car in front.
The gap that they make you follow at varies slightly, depending on your position in the car, but the average I've counted is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. Those distances are closer than the 2 second rule that the government keep talking about?

[Gareth]

I have never really understood the whole following distance issue and why there is a "2-second rule"

On rural roads you'll find that almost no-one follows the 'rule', the exception being people who have been exposed to the ideas of advanced driving. The vast majority of drivers follow closer than the 'thinking' distance.

(I suppose the government need to keep it simple for those who got their licence out of a cereal box).

Even though many licence holders with a few years experience think the driving test is easy, many learners find it is much more difficult than they had imagined.

chevrons painted on the road [...] The gap that they make you follow at varies slightly, depending on your position in the car, but the average I've counted is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. Those distances are closer than the 2 second rule that the government keep talking about?

More details - the gap is likely to be less than 2 seconds if you are travelling faster than the NSL. This was discussed quite recently.

[Silk]

One of my pet hates is stickers in back windows. Dealerships stickers in particular.

Yet another thing on which we disagree! I generally leave dealership stickers in my rear window - I particularly like my most recent one which looks classy to me.

It never ceases to amaze me what some people find classy. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

[jont]

Even though many licence holders with a few years experience think the driving test is easy, many learners find it is much more difficult than they had imagined.

And yet at the same time many license holders would readily admit they'd expect to fail if they had to resit the DSA test.

[TheInsanity1234]

Even though many licence holders with a few years experience think the driving test is easy, many learners find it is much more difficult than they had imagined.

And yet at the same time many license holders would readily admit they'd expect to fail if they had to resit the DSA test.

That would be because it requires a focused mind to maintain good driving standards, however, it is very, very easy to pick up bad driving habits.

For instance, one of my friends was a superb driver, passed his theory and practical tests first time, but literally a week after he passed, he was driving me home, and he approached a roundabout and proceeded to just go across it without looking and slowing down. When I asked him why he did that, he replied "because no one ever goes around there".
That was literally a week after he passed his test.
Also, the shocking driving habits of people on this new BBC3 documentary called "Barely Legal Drivers" have to be seen to be believed.

[Ralge]

I have never really understood the whole following distance issue and why there is a "2-second rule" because in my mind, this only really serves to encourage that frame of mind that "if I am following at this distance, I must be a safe driver" even when conditions don't encourage it.

I would just guess that a decent following distance would be:
Minimum number of car lengths = (speed limit / 10) + 1
For example, the speed limit is 70, so the minimum following distance should be 8 car lengths?
(I suppose the government need to keep it simple for those who got their licence out of a cereal box).

In fact, have any of you noticed that in some places on the motorway, there are chevrons painted on the road and you have to follow someone with at least 2 of those in between you and the car in front.
The gap that they make you follow at varies slightly, depending on your position in the car, but the average I've counted is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. Those distances are closer than the 2 second rule that the government keep talking about?

With a good view of the first chevron in front and with the car ahead already beyond the second (how the roadside board portrays it) I.e. fully two chevrons' space ahead, I measure it as a 2-second gap so am at odds with your assessment of it somehow.
(Incidentally, when have the Govt mentioned a two-second gap recently?)

The true benefit of such a gap as a MINIMUM, for me, can be understood if the answers are known to the questions:
- if it is a good idea to remind drivers what a 2-second gap looks like at 70mph, why aren't there chevrons on every stretch of m/w?
And
- whatever the reason for this, why is it a feature of this particular chevron-ed stretch? What is the root cause, the common denominator of every chevron-ed m/w bar one that I have seen that generates the need for the chevrons?

[Ralge]

It's interesting how poorly this little ditty has worked. On the motorway, for example, how many cars maintain a 2-second following distance?

A safe following distance must be one of the most important things for safety - arguably the most important - yet it's not something that sticks for many people after they pass their L-test. Perhaps its importance is lost amongst all the other things, such as parking, with which learners are trying to grapple.

And, judging by the high incidence of parking scrapes and by the obvious and poor parking choices drivers make in the car parks I use, parking is not well taught either.

[Ralge]

A safe following distance must be one of the most important things for safety - arguably the most important - yet it's not something that sticks for many people after they pass their L-test.

Quite agree - I wonder how many crashes annually would be avoided if everyone kept the space in front to 2+ secs...quite shocking really. It's such a simple thing and yet so widely ignored for no benefit I'm aware of.

It might not be so widely ignored if we took on whatever technology it is that the German police use - speed/space cameras (?)
There, your speed (in good conditions) in km/hr is halved to define what space you must retain for yourself ahead.
So, at 160km/hr, 80 metres. Any less generates a fine (determined on a sliding scale, so 60 metres at this speed attracts a higher fine than 70 metres). Such fines are dished out regularly if a Uk-familiarisation delegate's experience is anything to go by.

Note to DfT: increase m/w speed limits by all means but enforce space à l'allemande, the German way.

[Ralge]

Even though many licence holders with a few years experience think the driving test is easy, many learners find it is much more difficult than they had imagined.

And yet at the same time many license holders would readily admit they'd expect to fail if they had to resit the DSA test.

And, whilst broadly being reasonably decent drivers (otherwise there would be carnage daily), they focus wrongly on hand-and-feet "errors" - crossing hands, for instance, that is no longer marked down - and ignore (have no knowledge or memory of) a raft of stuff that they'd fall foul of in any retake of this test of minimum competence (space, speed, observations, anticipation, system, law/best practice ...)

[martine]

...I would just guess that a decent following distance would be:
Minimum number of car lengths = (speed limit / 10) + 1
For example, the speed limit is 70, so the minimum following distance should be 8 car lengths?

mmmm...not sure about your maths...8 car lengths would be around a 1 second gap @ 70mph...eeeek

Bearing in mind the 'official' thinking time is 0.7 seconds, you'd be awfully close to the vehicle in front before even starting to brake...