ABS

[jcochrane]

My first experience of ABS in action was during a pursuit exercise. There was no question that the ability to steer and brake saved us from what would have been an extremely serious accident.

[TheInsanity1234]

How many Audi drivers, whose cars have brake wipe assist, know this?

Is that not available on a lot of VAG cars anyway?

I know it's standard across the Audi range, but the VW Sirocco has it too, so there must be other cars in the VAG group with it?

[Angus]

With regard to learners, is abs largely irrelevant? By all means give them a taste of it, but I think that with the majority of novice drivers, their first car won't have abs.

Considering that, should driving school cars be able to disable the abs so that students appreciate what a skid under braking feels like? That their first "Oh Sh*t" moment is in a relatively controlled environment with an instructor suggesting/shouting a course of action?

I agree that experience of skid pans and high speed would be highly desirable. But many police forces no longer have a skid pan. And track or runway environments are expensive. Unless we take the Scandinavian attitude to learning to drive these will never be part of the DSA test and will remain the domain of enthusiasts (ie a small minority) post test.

[Carbon Based]

I seem to remember reading that skid pan training actually increases a driver's likehood of having a collision/excursion into the scenery. The safe environment encourages people to get into situations that require near limitless run off areas to recover from.

It is however, great fun

[trashbat]

With regard to learners, is abs largely irrelevant? By all means give them a taste of it, but I think that with the majority of novice drivers, their first car won't have abs

Really? What faintly recent cars don't have ABS? (I haven't looked)

Edit: apparently mandatory on any car sold in the EU since 2007, and obviously existed long before that. I think you underestimate what cars novices will be driving.

[TheInsanity1234]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

[Angus]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

You'll let us all know how much the additional premium is then? Both when you're put on as a named provisional licence holder and the extra when you pass your test.

It was an additional £400 to add my daughter as a named driver on SHMBO's Polo - she was 20 and had 3 year's NCD in her own right. And that wasn't for a whole year

I don't think the majority of parents will [be able to afford to] buy their offspring a newish car together with insurance costs, so I'd still say the majority of new, young drivers who would probably benefit from abs, won't have it on the first car that is their own

[Horse]

I agree that experience of skid pans and high speed would be highly desirable. But many police forces no longer have a skid pan. And track or runway environments are expensive. Unless we take the Scandinavian attitude to learning to drive these will never be part of the DSA test and will remain the domain of enthusiasts (ie a small minority) post test.

How do you think the Scandinavians currently train novice drivers?

[trashbat]

2007's not hugely new but seems to be about the average age of a car, but it looks to me like you can go back several more years and still find most cars have it. 2003 Polos and Corsas, 2005 Fiestas if not before, etc etc, and more likely with anything bigger or originally more expensive - my 156 got it in 1998. By that point you're edging towards the average lifespan of a UK car, thought to be about 13 years.

[TheInsanity1234]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

You'll let us all know how much the additional premium is then? Both when you're put on as a named provisional licence holder and the extra when you pass your test.

It was an additional £400 to add my daughter as a named driver on SHMBO's Polo - she was 20 and had 3 year's NCD in her own right. And that wasn't for a whole year

Yeah, of course I will

My sister who is 18, has no NCD and passed only last October is on the insurance for the Yeti and apparently it's nearly a grand extra per year for her, and I wouldn't have thought that adding me on as a named driver would make much difference to the premium, as me and my sister would have similar risk profiles, and therefore the cost would be quite similar for both of us.

[TripleS]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

Hmm, sounds a bit old to have ABS.

I know my first car was a '60 Austin-Healey Sprite (Frogeye) and that didn't have ABS, but it did at least have drum brakes. Even so, we managed OK. Maybe the driver wasn't totally incompetent...at that stage. Oddly enough, I've been questioning my driving more seriously this last few years. No firm conclusions yet, but still......

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[trashbat]

Was it possible to go fast (or far) enough in a Sprite to actually require ABS? #justsayin

[TheInsanity1234]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

Hmm, sounds a bit old to have ABS.

*facepalm* I knew someone would do that

I know my first car was a '60 Austin-Healey Sprite (Frogeye) and that didn't have ABS, but it did at least have drum brakes. Even so, we managed OK. Maybe the driver wasn't totally incompetent...at that stage. Oddly enough, I've been questioning my driving more seriously this last few years. No firm conclusions yet, but still......

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Drum brakes? "At least"? Were they an optional extra or something?

[Gromit37]

When I did some skid control tuition at Elvington airfield (back when I had the Caterham7) they put me in a BMW 1 series and got me to drive at 60mph toward cones laid out in a very tight chicane, simulating a lane change. Emergency braking and steering at the same time was very, very impressive. I could not believe how capable the systrem was, despite my initial tendency to ease of the brakes slightly as I strarted turning the wheel. From experience, the Caterham would always lock at least one wheel when applying emergency/threshold braking. Every driver should have to experience abs v non-abs emergency stops and lane changes.

Once you know how to use it properly the system is almost foolproof. But there are some really dedicated fools out there, myself included. Keep the bloody pedal pressed to the bulkhead!

Gromit

[TripleS]

I won't own my own first car, but I'll be put on my parent's insurance for our Yeti, and since that's a '61 model, I'm certain it has ABS

Hmm, sounds a bit old to have ABS.

*facepalm* I knew someone would do that

I know my first car was a '60 Austin-Healey Sprite (Frogeye) and that didn't have ABS, but it did at least have drum brakes. Even so, we managed OK. Maybe the driver wasn't totally incompetent...at that stage. Oddly enough, I've been questioning my driving more seriously this last few years. No firm conclusions yet, but still......

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Drum brakes? "At least"? Were they an optional extra or something?

Heh, yes, I worded that a bit strangely. I meant to say that it did at least have some brakes and that they were of the (now much maligned) drum type: but as I said, I found them OK for my purposes, though I wasn't a doddery old git in those days: I am now!

There used to be a story about somebody criticising Rolls-Royce for continuing to fit drum brakes, long past the time when most manufactureres had adopted disc brakes. The response from R-R was along the lines of, "When disc brakes are as good as our drum brakes, we'll consider using them!"