Handling (blog post)

by **Kimosabe** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:38 am

Okay. So after some consideration and wise suggestions, I have changed my original posting because it does seem a shame to remove everything which has since been posted here, as it will hopefully be of value to anyone interested in learning as much as they can about this.

My intention was to start a thread on handling and to encourage discussion about it and that has now happened, so onwards.

Many thanks to all who have so far posted.

by **revian** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:57 pm

StressedDave wrote:Excellent, I love reading articles where every single word is utterly wrong...

Every word? Is there anything right in it then?

by **TheInsanity1234** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:33 pm

I tried to read it.

I got up to the end of the first paragraph, and alas, fell asleep. Well, I didn't, but my brain did. :mrgreen:

by **Horse** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:28 pm

"Economist Intelligence Unit, while admitting that "there is no consensus on how to measure democracy" and that "definitions of democracy are contested," lists North Korea in last place as the most authoritarian regime in its index of democracy assessing 167 countries.[9]"

Well, I learned more from Wikipedia

by **fungus** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:04 pm

Ugh!

by **jcochrane** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:02 pm

StressedDave wrote:
revian wrote:
StressedDave wrote:Excellent, I love reading articles where every single word is utterly wrong...

Every word? Is there anything right in it then?

At a technical level, no... while there might be a touch of hyperbole in my description, there's about as much truth in the article as a Wikipedia entry on North Korean politics.

I would never argue with StressedDave anyway in these matters but having only read the first few paragraphs I agree wholeheartedly with his summing up.

by **Kimosabe** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:01 am

Seems like a lot of effort went into writing it for it to be completely wrong. I'm trying to read up on as much of this as I can right now and this was the first blog I found. Glad you guys were on hand. Thanks.

Perhaps to avoid further confusion it could be removed? Not sure how to do that. Brb.

Edit: found the warning triangle and just messaged admin to get this removed. Thanks again.

by **jont** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:51 pm

StressedDave wrote:No, you can't borrow my copies...

If you could just precis the pertinent points... :lol:

by **WhoseGeneration** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:26 pm

jont wrote:
StressedDave wrote:No, you can't borrow my copies...

If you could just precis the pertinent points...

It's not simple, vehicle dynamics.
What is of interest is that as the competion sphere moves to restricting technology as regards handling, in the name of cost reduction, the road sphere moves towards exploiting technology to provide handling for all situations.

by **revian** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:48 pm

jont wrote:
StressedDave wrote:No, you can't borrow my copies...

If you could just precis the pertinent points...

+1... But I'll try to read it...

by **Kimosabe** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:01 am

StressedDave wrote:If you're serious about finding out the physics behind all this, I recommend (to be read strictly in the order shown):

1. The Racing and High Performance Tire - http://insideracingtechnology.com/booktiredescrptn.htm
2. Drive to Win - Carroll Smith
3. Race Car Vehicle Dynamics - Milliken & Milliken
4. Tyre and Vehicle Dynamics - Pajecka
5. Multibody Systems Approach to Vehicle Dynamics - Blundell and Harty

4 and 5 are strictly optional and best suited to those who really, really like the solution of partial differential equations and writing their own vehicle dynamics models. The trouble is there are some nice gems in those two books that aren't really that well detailed in the others. (Pajecka wrote the book (literally now...) on tyre modelling and behaviour, whilst Harty was the Chief Engineer at Prodrive in the Rally era so has some interesting thoughts on how to define and measure driver and vehicle performance.

No, you can't borrow my copies...

Many thanks for posting this. What I'm interested to know more about is how my car sticks to the road and what I can do to ensure it does so in the most efficient manner, in a bit more depth than Roadcraft mentions. This is what led me to reading online about slip angles etc, in very broad terms (compared to vehicle dynamics modelling) because I now feel it necessary to be able to appreciate some of the processes involved in a deeper way and to apply what I learn to my driving. So I am grateful to you for the suggested reading list above and I'm sure you'll understand it if I don't ask to borrow your copies :lol:

Okay so let's give this a go.

The Racing and High Performance Tire - http://insideracingtechnology.com/booktiredescrptn.htm

by **fungus** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:58 pm

Try Don Palmers website if you wish to know more.

by **Kimosabe** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:25 pm

fungus wrote:Try Don Palmers website if you wish to know more.

Thanks for reminding me about that. I had a link to a document he wrote saved but my PC went kablooey and I forgot to bookmark it on the new one.

by **Kimosabe** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:31 pm

StressedDave wrote:I would caution against using Don's website as the truth about vehicle handling. It's an invaluable resource about thinking about what the car is doing, but it's not actually representative as to what is actually happening.

Thanks, again. As I'm sure you can tell, it's still fairly theoretical for me right now but I'm doing what I can to get it right in practice.

Okay so where do I go to learn HTB etc? I'm not going to do HTB on a road until I've got it right in a safe environment. Where do people learn such things ?

by **GJD** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:15 pm

jont wrote:
StressedDave wrote:No, you can't borrow my copies...

If you could just precis the pertinent points...

More power!

Handling (blog post)

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