Use of Indicators

[Slink_Pink]

Hello all, I'm new, so please be kind!

I've got three indicator related questions:
1. Why shouldn't indicate when no-one is there?
2. Under the rules/system, is it acceptable/legal to use one or two flashes of the hazard warning lights to thank/acknowledge another driver?
3. Is it acceptable to indicate during the speed (i.e. braking) phase, in order to avoid confusion (e.g. if turning left into a driveway shortly after a left junction)?

[crr003]

Too slow! Doh.....

Hello all, I'm new, so please be kind!

Welcome!

I've got three indicator related questions:
1. Why shouldn't indicate when no-one is there?

The stock answer is the "advanced" driver will know if there is anybody worthwhile to signal to, and if there isn't anyone, it's a waste of energy to indicate. In reality I know several advanced drivers who indicate "anyway". It's not a big deal - the important part (for me) is knowing you've made a conscious decision based on information, not a reflex action.

2. Under the rules/system, is it acceptable/legal to use one or two flashes of the hazard warning lights to thank/acknowledge another driver?

Per Highway Code Rule 96 you shouldn't use them in this fashion. It is a MUST NOT. A nod or holding the hand up works for me.

3. Is it acceptable to indicate during the speed (i.e. braking) phase, in order to avoid confusion (e.g. if turning left into a driveway shortly after a left junction)?

According to the "System" (based on the Roadcraft book) the Information phase (taking, using, giving) extends across all the other phases as necessary - so yes, I'd keep signalling over the position, speed, gear, accereration phases if required.

[MiniClubmanEstate]

My dad (an ADI) has an interesting view on the only indicate if it would benefit another road user idea. http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#155 To my dad this means that we're ignoring the highway code, this is a popular argument we have when I'm driving. The other one I can understand his pont on this, is that if you're turning into a tight junction, there is nobody you can see but you can't see into the road you're turning into, a pedestrian or other road user could be round the corner and will see the corner of your car before you see them.
I'll not post my views, I'll let the voices of experience explain this as I am at the moment a failed IAM'er and my views probably don't count for much.

[James]

The only time Hazard Warning lights can be used like this is on a motorway to warn those behind of a hazard in front of you.

[crr003]

The only time Hazard Warning lights can be used like this is on a motorway to warn those behind of a hazard in front of you.

Or unrestricted dual carriageway according to HC 96.

[crr003]

My dad (an ADI) has an interesting view on the only indicate if it would benefit another road user idea. http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#155 To my dad this means that we're ignoring the highway code,

I'm not ignoring the HC, I'm taking "rule" 85 into consideration - "use them, if necessary...." I think ADIs have shares in indicator bulb companies

The other one I can understand his pont on this, is that if you're turning into a tight junction, there is nobody you can see but you can't see into the road you're turning into, a pedestrian or other road user could be round the corner and will see the corner of your car before you see them.

If it's that blind, I'd be thinking about a horn warning - a flashing light isn't really going to help IMO.

I'll not post my views, I'll let the voices of experience explain this as I am at the moment a failed IAM'er and my views probably don't count for much.

Post away - all contributions gratefully received......

[MiniClubmanEstate]

I think ADIs have shares in indicator bulb companies Wink

I like it.

[James]

I feel I must say this. The interpretation of driving within the "Highway Code" and "Advanced Driving" differ. The HC is a failsafe system designed to provide a universal rulebook for everyone, no matter their level or skil of driving. Advanced Driving is about dropping some of those rules and accentuating others, in order to be a "cut above" the rest.

Let's not get bogged down with what the HC say's about indicating. We all, as Advanced Driver's, know that we will NOT indicate unless there is someone else present that could benefit from that indication. The reason, mainly, is that by doing this it is encouraging us to be aware at all times of what is around us in order to make a decision on whether or not to indicate. This "standard" of thought process and attitude is one that is beyond DSA standards and beyond what would be expected of your average driver.

So let's pat ourselves on the back and take the initative to make a decision based on experience. Let's not dwell on a book that, for want of a better definiton, is written NOT for advanced driving but for the beginner, and also whose content is mostly a suggested "road courtesy method", not "law".

[martine]

The other one I can understand his pont on this, is that if you're turning into a tight junction, there is nobody you can see but you can't see into the road you're turning into, a pedestrian or other road user could be round the corner and will see the corner of your car before you see them.
.

I suggest associates indicate if in any doubt...that means you only don't indicate if you are sure no one will benefit (classic motorway moving from lane 2 to lane 1 or approaching a mini roundabout with clear views all around). 'no one' means no road user including cyclists and pedestrians.

[Slink_Pink]

For #3, the only good reason I'd heard elsewhere (my IAM observer) was that indicators should not be used habitually, but that each situation should be individually assessed to determine the information requirements.

Thanks to all for your (very) quick answers!

[ScoobyChris]

Per Highway Code Rule 96 you shouldn't use them in this fashion. It is a MUST NOT. A nod or holding the hand up works for me.

The only time I use them as a thank you is when a lorry or coach has let me out and I'm assuming that they would not see me holding my hand up or nodding to them.... Is there an approved alternative? Thinking about it, I guess cars in adjacent lanes may interpret the hazard flash as a signal of me intending to change to their lane - worst case if I am in lane 2!

Chris

[jont]

The only time I use them as a thank you is when a lorry or coach has let me out and I'm assuming that they would not see me holding my hand up or nodding to them.... Is there an approved alternative?

When towing I used to use 1L, 1R flash (immediately at the end of indicating R to move out or L to move back in) rather than hazards when someone let me out, and I've seen lorries/coaches use the same. Again, it could be confusing for following cars

[Slink_Pink]

When towing I used to use 1L, 1R flash (immediately at the end of indicating R to move out or L to move back in) rather than hazards when someone let me out, and I've seen lorries/coaches use the same. Again, it could be confusing for following cars

I too have used this, but it does require some rapid hand movements, not something I feel that comfortable with on busy motorways, etc. It is, however, one method of thanking other vehicles in the dark, when a nod is not as good as a wink to a blind bat! (Excuse the bad monty python reference).

On a similar vien, I was once told (by a not very reliable source) that flashing of the rear fog light is a "recognised" method of, shall we say 'communicating with tailgaters'. I know that this is a ridiculous suggestion (illegal?) - has anyone else heard of this?

[ScoobyChris]

And even more confusing if you're blessed with the 3-flash indicators all new cars seem to be being fitted with!

Chris

[jont]

When towing I used to use 1L, 1R flash (immediately at the end of indicating R to move out or L to move back in) rather than hazards when someone let me out

I too have used this, but it does require some rapid hand movements, not something I feel that comfortable with on busy motorways, etc.

Maybe I've been lucky with my cars, but I've always been able to reach the indicator stalk with my fingers without taking my hand off the wheel, so I've never really felt uncomfortable doing it.