Injuries associated with airbag deployment

[Kimosabe]

but I've never had to control a skid.
It's all about learning, right?

Never having had to control a skid, that's down to the fact that you have always been driving in an AD way.
Learning to experience skid control, just pay and play somewhere. Though as Horse has previously said, it's doubtful whether public roads provide the space, considering others possibly there, to correct without damage.
The only circumstance I'd expect an AD to have to correct a skid would be at an already slow speed on ice or very snow covered roads.

I've been looking into spending some time at Goodwood skid pan but someone told me recently that due to building development, the skid pan company who runs it might no longer operate there. The slightest hint of a skid around here brings out the locals and such events usually make the local rag, so Asda car park it is then

I found it interesting to play with ABS on quieter roads (mirrors) so perhaps that's a more likely scenario to work on than a skid, what with it being Pheasant season and all ... All the same, as I say, if it crosses my path (pardon the pun) I like to make an effort to learn more about it.

So I have a RWD Mx5 and a 4WD Land Rover. Just out of interest, I'd like to know more about how they break away and where their limits are. As you say, I'm rarely anywhere near where I think the limit of grip is on the road but knowing more about it can't hurt on those rare occasions when people aren't queueing at 40ish on NSLs.

In terms of control, I find 3:15 gives me less to do under all but the more angular of manoeuvres. In terms of airbag deployment, does it make any difference as regards potential injuries?

[Kimosabe]

I applaud your efforts to find a definitive research but doesn't it intuitively make sense? If a hand is in front of the airbag during deployment it's either going to damage your hand/face or stop the airbag from cushioning your upper body and head...isn't it?

It does make sense if the airbag deploys but perhaps a personal example might help to expand on what lead to my curiosity.

I wonder what it takes to cause a front airbag to deploy. When I was told that "we don't allow hands to go over 12 o'clock because if the airbag deployed, it would break my arms", I was at first surprised that airbag deployment could occur at such a low speed. We were in a car park and I had just purposely taken a corner by what I thought was called 'predictive input'. That is to say that I took hold of the wheel at about 10 o'clock with my right hand, while keeping my left hand at 9 and pulled the wheel until my right hand was at around 3. Both hands at this point were opposite eachother. The car took the corner with no further input or drama until I straightened the wheel in the exact opposite way. The whole thing took a few seconds. I couldn't see anything wrong with what I did as I have done this many times and the instant catastrophised potential outcome seemed ridiculous and misplaced, even if somewhat predictable.

So true to form, I set about checking the information I was given for myself and this is as far as I have got so far. As always I am happy to be corrected and guided but only if it comes with reasonable information.

Just a small point what you describe was not "predictive" steering. Predictive steering is where both the hands are prepositioned before steering, then, in a fixed grip/hands manner, turning the wheel and if judged correctly the hands will be at 3-9 at the maximum turn point. Hence the term predictive as you predict the amount of turn required and pre position your hands based on that prediction.

What you describe sounds, like what is referred to as "taking a good handful of steering wheel" before commencing PP The upper hand passes over 12 o'clock so quickly in the early phase of steering that any issue is surely remote.

On the other hand, and I am only guessing, if one hand has crossed past 12 'o'clock and then held there for most of the turn as might occur if using fixed input then there may be an issue. Personally I only use fixed input up to 12 o'clock. If more of a turn is required I would use PP.

Thanks Martine and John.

Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I was doing. Effectively both hands are on the same side of the wheel momentarily before one pulls the wheel back to complete the turn and hopefully arrives at around opposite eachother. I can see that this may not always be the way to negotiate a corner or bend but under certain circumstances, I find it works well for me. I guess I just don't like being told 'because we don't do that' without any reasonable answers as to why. Airbag deployment while driving around a car park isn't what I call reasonable.

[Horse]

Airbag deployment while driving around a car park isn't what I call reasonable.

Possibly if you hit a massive pot hole! Otherwise, as I said earlier, plan ahead for the corner: if a head-on is possible, then don't cross arms over the wheel hub. If it's not, then where's the danger?

The only caveat might be that teaching / using a single style overcomes the likelihood of mental confusion in moments such as skid control. And, sadly, the trafpol mentioned earlier presumably wasn't PPing.

[triquet]

Interesting stuff. Now IAM were preaching push-pull long before air bags came along. Chicken / egg?

I'm more worried about the air bag crushing my specs into my face ....