ADUK Archive

I after some advice on tailgating bike riders.

This evening I was coming out of Norwich City centre And I had a motorbike rider tailgating me. His position changed all the time from close to very close then to a reasonable distance and then started all over again also moving from one side of the road to the other. I kept an extra long distance back from the car in front and doubly checked my mirrors to see where he was. While this was going on I was still taking up the best road position for observations.

Was I right I carry on with getting the best position to see ahead or should I have kept a neutral position so I didn't give him any wrong information. Possibly thinking I was moving out of his way to allow him to pass?

Thanks

Jack

Invite him to overtake.

Graham Wright wrote:Invite him to overtake.

I agree.

Positioning for visibility & observation is a nice-to-have. It's valuable and you should use it wherever appropriate, which is why it's part of the system. However, whilst I'm shying away from using the word 'luxury', other things take priority. Safety is the obvious one. Avoiding misdirection is another - as you say, he might have thought you were inviting him past, and he might have thought you simply hadn't seen him. Courtesy is another.

I would keep left and make a suitably large space in front for them to filter through and into. Not everyone is willing to filter, of course - many moped riders, for example - and if they didn't take the opportunity then eventually I would revert to normal behaviour. Tailgating is more their problem than yours.

In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

In this particular case it would also be prudent to avoid making a sudden change to your chosen course or position, given that the biker is, at times, not only following closely, but also moving about laterally quite a bit. This could lead you to wonder which side he's going to use to get past you!

Tailgaters are usually a pest, if not actually a danger to us; but what they certainly are is a distraction from our own driving. To me that is the major problem with them.

TripleS wrote:In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

Trouble is, to the tailgater that appears to be deliberate obstruction and is likely to result in an angry tailgater - hardly an improvement

If someone really wants past then find a safe opportunity to help them get past and take their dangerous driving elsewhere.

Overall I'd rather have them in front where I can at least keep an eye on them and manage the space between us.

Horse wrote:

TripleS wrote:In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

Trouble is, to the tailgater that appears to be deliberate obstruction and is likely to result in an angry tailgater - hardly an improvement

Well of course that is possible, but I thought we had generally accepted the merits of maintaining a comfortable following distance ourselves when being tailgated. I note what you say, but in the main I think the normal advice is still valid.

Of course we don't wish to have angry tailgaters behind us, but if that is the result, it's really showing up their shortcomings rather than ours.

michael769 wrote:If someone really wants past then find a safe opportunity to help them get past and take their dangerous driving elsewhere.

Overall I'd rather have them in front where I can at least keep an eye on them and manage the space between us.

Always worth a check on your own assumptions as well - especially if you're not a motorcyclist as well:

- there's the absolute situation where the guy is waay to close, usually to your offside 3/4. I see that a lot, in which case all advice about keeping it neutral and staying out of the way apply.
- it's often difficult for a car driver to judge just how close a bike is - particularly in the dark. Bikes can be very distracting when following a car because their short wheelbase leads to a lot of pitching and therefore flickering of the headlight in the mirror of the followed vehicle.
- was he/she just moving from follow to overtake position as the sight line developed?
- bikes will (and should) move around the road a lot more as they can pick up potential sight lines that simply aren't available to a car driver.

Does sound like your guy was in the first category but, as motorcyclists, even when riding to spec, we need to do a little to manage the perceptions of those who range from ignorant to actively hostile.

TripleS wrote:

Horse wrote:

TripleS wrote:In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

Trouble is, to the tailgater that appears to be deliberate obstruction and is likely to result in an angry tailgater - hardly an improvement

Well of course that is possible, but I thought we had generally accepted the merits of maintaining a comfortable following distance ourselves when being tailgated. I note what you say, but in the main I think the normal advice is still valid.

Of course we don't wish to have angry tailgaters behind us, but if that is the result, it's really showing up their shortcomings rather than ours.

I wasn't suggesting it was an incorrect action, more suggesting preparedness for a reaction.

Technomad wrote:

michael769 wrote:If someone really wants past then find a safe opportunity to help them get past and take their dangerous driving elsewhere.

Overall I'd rather have them in front where I can at least keep an eye on them and manage the space between us.

Always worth a check on your own assumptions as well - especially if you're not a motorcyclist as well:

- there's the absolute situation where the guy is waay to close, usually to your offside 3/4. I see that a lot, in which case all advice about keeping it neutral and staying out of the way apply.
- it's often difficult for a car driver to judge just how close a bike is - particularly in the dark. Bikes can be very distracting when following a car because their short wheelbase leads to a lot of pitching and therefore flickering of the headlight in the mirror of the followed vehicle.
- was he/she just moving from follow to overtake position as the sight line developed?
- bikes will (and should) move around the road a lot more as they can pick up potential sight lines that simply aren't available to a car driver.

Does sound like your guy was in the first category but, as motorcyclists, even when riding to spec, we need to do a little to manage the perceptions of those who range from ignorant to actively hostile.

There were several opportunities for him to pass either overtake/filtering through at traffic lights. At points where he was riding very close I couldn't see his headlight over the top of my boot lid. I've been a biker for over 7 years now I agree with your points the pitching etc of bikes can throw off some drivers but I'd like to think I would be able to see "through it".

TripleS wrote:In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

In this particular case it would also be prudent to avoid making a sudden change to your chosen course or position, given that the biker is, at times, not only following closely, but also moving about laterally quite a bit. This could lead you to wonder which side he's going to use to get.

Completely agree there, which is why I was in 2 minds as to weather to continue moving to gain the best view so I wouldn't need to brake suddenly or keep a neutral positions . Even tho I was changing my position very early and making it obvious what I was doing/intending to do I still felt uneasy about it.

kwaka jack wrote:

TripleS wrote:In normal cases of tailgating the important thing seems to be to ensure that you do not place yourself in situations where you may need to brake suddenly and/or heavily, so you keep well back from any vehicle you may be following.

In this particular case it would also be prudent to avoid making a sudden change to your chosen course or position, given that the biker is, at times, not only following closely, but also moving about laterally quite a bit. This could lead you to wonder which side he's going to use to get past.

Completely agree there, which is why I was in 2 minds as to weather to continue moving to gain the best view so I wouldn't need to brake suddenly or keep a neutral positions . Even tho I was changing my position very early and making it obvious what I was doing/intending to do I still felt uneasy about it.

Yes, I can understand that. I suppose the problem is that we might take all reasonable steps to keep things safe and orderly by maintaining plenty of time and space for others, as well as ourselves, but it still isn't enough for some people and they cock things up after all.

kwaka jack wrote:There were several opportunities for him to pass either overtake/filtering through at traffic lights. At points where he was riding very close I couldn't see his headlight over the top of my boot lid. I've been a biker for over 7 years now I agree with your points the pitching etc of bikes can throw off some drivers but I'd like to think I would be able to see "through it".

In that case rather than allowing him to sit in my boot, I'd be tempted to move left and (gradually, safely) slow until he took the hint and overtook.

Ancient wrote:

kwaka jack wrote:There were several opportunities for him to pass either overtake/filtering through at traffic lights. At points where he was riding very close I couldn't see his headlight over the top of my boot lid. I've been a biker for over 7 years now I agree with your points the pitching etc of bikes can throw off some drivers but I'd like to think I would be able to see "through it".

In that case rather than allowing him to sit in my boot, I'd be tempted to move left and (gradually, safely) slow until he took the hint and overtook.

Roger dodger