The John Miles method of cornering.

[TripleS]

I appreciate that you were quoting extreme examples, and they deserve great respect; but a normal car being driven in a sensible and smooth manner on public roads is not going to get into difficulties on account of a modest amount/rate of weight transfer. The principles involved are pretty clear and undeniable, but we do seem to get in a tizzy rather too readily when contemplating or carrying out perfectly normal manoeuvres IMHO. That's all I'm suggesting.

All I was trying to point out was that the principles of smooth driving and cornering can be applied to any vehicle in any situation and even if the factors are exaggerated it will provide the best chance of getting a smooth and safe outcome.

Cornering in a normal road car at a normal (ish) speed will not produce an outcome that will be detrimental to stability but there are factors that might just come up at an inopportune moment that might just cause an exaggeration in one particular area, a sudden loss of grip due to a biker losing his bike on a bend an hour earlier and leaving a nice patch of oil just where grip is needed, for instance.

What I'm trying to show is that while all things are going in the intended direction and as they should then all things should be okay, throw a couple of unexpected factors in the mix and it could get a bit messy.
Would it not be a better outcome to provide the basis of a stable line from the beginning rather than rely on a reserve of tyre grip that might not be there to steer out of trouble mid corner? It might work for you and that I fully accept but it cannot be something that can be applied to any area of driving that goes slightly beyond the parameters of modest weight transfer, cornering forces or tyre or road surface adhesion.

I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you that I'm not running undue risks, am I? Never mind.

[Tosh]

It's not for you to convince me that you are running undue risks. If you feel that your method causes you no issues I would readily accept that. My thoughts are that your method combined with your experience you are perfectly safe and competent. Put that same method into the hands of a less experienced or a driver with not the same appreciation for the limits of grip then it could, under circumstances that are not of someone's liking, be the meeting of car and hedge.

[TripleS]

It's not for you to convince me that you are running undue risks. If you feel that your method causes you no issues I would readily accept that. My thoughts are that your method combined with your experience you are perfectly safe and competent. Put that same method into the hands of a less experienced or a driver with not the same appreciation for the limits of grip then it could, under circumstances that are not of someone's liking, be the meeting of car and hedge.

That's OK then. Rightly or wrongly I happen to feel that the various elements of my driving style are a pretty good (though not perfect) mix for enabling me to keep out of trouble, but they may not work for others. They need to find their own way, a way that may suit them better.

It's all very well reading the advanced driving books and debating these things with experts, but at the end of the day what really matters is how we, as individuals, do various things, and in what circumstances, that determines our degree of success...or failure.

Unless you wish to add anything further, I'm going to conclude that we have reached a satisfactory understanding. Thanks for your comments and ideas.

[triquet]

And today's interesting example of weight transfer ...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/116817 ... llingford/

[Horse]

And today's interesting example of weight transfer ...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/116817 ... llingford/

Here's a place where they occasionally fall over:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll ... 55,,0,9.05

At the point where the blue HGV is heading away. Note its body roll!

There's a long, straight and deceptively wide approach - followed by a tight, narrow 'S' transit and exit. Poor junction design 'encouraging' poor assessment . . .

[triquet]

This is where the HGV copped in this morning. Approach from Reading going towards Oxford, downhill onto a tight roundabout, with some curious cambering into the bargain ...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.58732 ... !2e0?hl=en

[revian]

A centipede was happy – quite!
Until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg moves after which?"
This raised her doubts to such a pitch,
She fell exhausted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

Rising from my 'sick bed' I'll simply express disappointment that ESP didn't find a mention..



Ian

[Tosh]

And today's interesting example of weight transfer ...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/116817 ... llingford/

Here's a place where they occasionally fall over:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll ... 55,,0,9.05

At the point where the blue HGV is heading away. Note its body roll!

There's a long, straight and deceptively wide approach - followed by a tight, narrow 'S' transit and exit. Poor junction design 'encouraging' poor assessment . . .

Not to mention the pendulum effect created by that nifty bit of highway design. On the apporach and entry weight shifts right then once on the roundabout everthing is then shifted to the left side, except this time the weight has now gained momentum, just to make things even trickier. It is something that will catch out even the most experienced driver. All it takes is just a little too much speed carried and a rollover is very easy.

[TheInsanity1234]

You're all having a very interesting discussion on cornering and the physics involved.

And I'm just sitting here thinking "What's wrong with just turning the wheel to the required amount to prevent a close encounter of the car/tree kind?"

[jcochrane]

You're all having a very interesting discussion on cornering and the physics involved.

And I'm just sitting here thinking "What's wrong with just turning the wheel to the required amount to prevent a close encounter of the car/tree kind?"

Welcome to the world of Advanced Driving aka driving anoraks.

[Gareth]

And I'm just sitting here thinking "What's wrong with just turning the wheel to the required amount to prevent a close encounter of the car/tree kind?"

Factors like the rate of travel and the rate of steering ...

[TripleS]

And today's interesting example of weight transfer ...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/116817 ... llingford/

Here's a place where they occasionally fall over:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll ... 55,,0,9.05

At the point where the blue HGV is heading away. Note its body roll!

There's a long, straight and deceptively wide approach - followed by a tight, narrow 'S' transit and exit. Poor junction design 'encouraging' poor assessment . . .

Not to mention the pendulum effect created by that nifty bit of highway design. On the apporach and entry weight shifts right then once on the roundabout everthing is then shifted to the left side, except this time the weight has now gained momentum, just to make things even trickier. It is something that will catch out even the most experienced driver. All it takes is just a little too much speed carried and a rollover is very easy.

Rather than saying "will", do you mind if we make it "could"?

You're right about speed though. A bit too much of that, and the situation could become unmanageable, with or without ESP.

[Horse]

Same effect caught out several trafpols with early Range Rovers, though

A local copper explained that there was noticeable lag on the body roll through corners, probably worsened by all the floodlights'n'stuff on the roof.

First bend, body lags slightly behind . . .
Second bend, that worsens . . .
Third bend of a sequence, the body could end up like a pendulum, out of time, swinging back to the outside, half way around the corner.

IIRC a few ended upside down in fields.

[WhoseGeneration]

Same effect caught out several trafpols with early Range Rovers, though

Current ones though, no comparison, how such an amount of metal can be hustled is testament to, yes, digital control and engineers' abilities to exploit the digital world.

[akirk]

Same effect caught out several trafpols with early Range Rovers, though

A local copper explained that there was noticeable lag on the body roll through corners, probably worsened by all the floodlights'n'stuff on the roof.

First bend, body lags slightly behind . . .
Second bend, that worsens . . .
Third bend of a sequence, the body could end up like a pendulum, out of time, swinging back to the outside, half way around the corner.

IIRC a few ended upside down in fields.

It is why they are so good off-road - just straightline the bends (across the fields!)

Alasdair