What has happened to all the roads in Surrey?

[EdgarF]

I grew up in Surrey. I learned to drive in Surrey. When I got my first job and could afford to buy a Ford Capri and then a TR7 (sorry!), I used to enjoy throwing them around the lovely NSL country roads in Surrey. Then I moved away. This week I had to go back to Surrey. I looked forward to driving on many of the roads that I used to enjoy in the past. But the NSL signs have been taken away, to be replaced by 40 mph speed limit signs and repeaters - everywhere! What has happened? Driving is no longer enjoyable in Surrey. Have you residents of Surrey elected the Greens or Liberal Democrats to be responsible for your roads? Can anyone enlighten us?

[Stephen]

Surrey is not the only place that this is happening in its happening all over ,the local councils answer to making roads safer reduce all the national speed limit roads down to 40 mph.
It won't change anytime soon, in fact it could only get worst. Driving these days is not as fun as it was a few years ago.
Stefluc

[martine]

My understanding of how it works is:

• Central government want to reduce KSIs (=vote winner)
• Local councils have been given much more flexibility to set speed limits (forget the old 80% rule)
• Some local residents want traffic passing their door to be slower, and petition the council (nimbys)
• After brief and shallow consultation, local council agree to lower limit
• NSL becomes 50 or even 40
• Job done

Often an A-road or B-road has an extended lower limit, bounded by unclassified roads that are NSL - that makes sense doesn't it?

[Rick999]

Those making these rues don't understand driving is something some people enjoy. They then think by slowing everyone down its then safer. All backed up by the deadheads in BRAKE.

[skodatezzer]

Don't get me started - I've got to live here Getting more and more difficult to find a decent bit of NSL to get associates out on. Latest one to go to 40 is Limpsfield to the top of Titsey Hill, after one fatal accident thereupon. There's one nasty bend but apart from that it's open and flowing with good sightlines. Lots of other similar cases all over the county. It's why we East Surrey-ites will have to depend on the kindness and commitment of others to organise ADUK driving days, and why so many of us will drive a long way to attend them

[Horse]

I grew up in Surrey. I learned to drive in Surrey. When I got my first job and could afford to buy a Ford Capri and then a TR7 (sorry!), I used to enjoy throwing them around the lovely NSL country roads in Surrey. Then I moved away. This week I had to go back to Surrey. I looked forward to driving on many of the roads that I used to enjoy in the past. But the NSL signs have been taken away, to be replaced by 40 mph speed limit signs and repeaters - everywhere! What has happened? Driving is no longer enjoyable in Surrey. Have you residents of Surrey elected the Greens or Liberal Democrats to be responsible for your roads? Can anyone enlighten us?

It's ends to the middle: from one end there is ever-incressing population, so more housing/businesses, etc, from the other end there is pressure to reduce casualties.

All of those premises will have entrances or result in more side roads, along with more traffic, often far more. You would probably accepted 30 limits in built-up areas back 'then', so why not now?

Similarly with traffic volumes and collisions on open roads, there's far more traffic on finite amounts of roads, but far greater pressure to bring down ccasualty rates - and there's no denying that higher speeds reduce reaction time, increase braking distances and, if there is a collision there is more energy to dissipate.

Also, think about the performance of vehicles now compared to your Capri and TR7 - they probably required far more effort to shovel around than modern equivalents.

[Horse]

Don't get me started - I've got to live here Getting more and more difficult to find a decent bit of NSL to get associates out on. Latest one to go to 40 is Limpsfield to the top of Titsey Hill, after one fatal accident thereupon. There's one nasty bend but apart from that it's open and flowing with good sightlines. Lots of other similar cases all over the county. It's why we East Surrey-ites will have to depend on the kindness and commitment of others to organise ADUK driving days, and why so many of us will drive a long way to attend them

In other words, sadly, the IAM test (and so training) is, perhaps ceasing to be relevant to most modern drivers.

[akirk]

Don't get me started - I've got to live here Getting more and more difficult to find a decent bit of NSL to get associates out on. Latest one to go to 40 is Limpsfield to the top of Titsey Hill, after one fatal accident thereupon. There's one nasty bend but apart from that it's open and flowing with good sightlines. Lots of other similar cases all over the county. It's why we East Surrey-ites will have to depend on the kindness and commitment of others to organise ADUK driving days, and why so many of us will drive a long way to attend them

In other words, sadly, the IAM test (and so training) is, perhaps ceasing to be relevant to most modern drivers.

No, it is more relevant - the more people there are on the road, the more important it is that people drive well... IAM and AD is not all about NSL

Alasdair

[jont]

Also, think about the performance of vehicles now compared to your Capri and TR7 - they probably required far more effort to shovel around than modern equivalents.

And they have better brakes and more grip. So we should be increasing speed limits to account for this

[Horse]

Don't get me started - I've got to live here Getting more and more difficult to find a decent bit of NSL to get associates out on. Latest one to go to 40 is Limpsfield to the top of Titsey Hill, after one fatal accident thereupon. There's one nasty bend but apart from that it's open and flowing with good sightlines. Lots of other similar cases all over the county. It's why we East Surrey-ites will have to depend on the kindness and commitment of others to organise ADUK driving days, and why so many of us will drive a long way to attend them

In other words, sadly, the IAM test (and so training) is, perhaps ceasing to be relevant to most modern drivers.

No, it is more relevant - the more people there are on the road, the more important it is that people drive well... IAM and AD is not all about NSL

Alasdair

Then the OP won't need to find alternative roads, for his associates, will he?

[Horse]

Also, think about the performance of vehicles now compared to your Capri and TR7 - they probably required far more effort to shovel around than modern equivalents.

And they have better brakes and more grip. So we should be increasing speed limits to account for this

Although the human driver has not altered in that time, still having identical reaction times.

Also, the vast increases in population (and so traffic, junctions, etc) mean those reactions would be tested more often - with an identical 'failure rate' . . .

[triquet]

As Horse will attest, the same is happening here in Occupied North Berkshire, where traffic is increasing by the day, and thousands more houses are being built. The daft thing is that more and more major roads are having 50 limits slapped on them, while tiny country byways remain at NSL.

What is the logic in only being able to drive at 50 on a wide major road and then turn off onto a minor road with a serious risk of tractors, horses and bunches of weekend cyclists and being allowed to drive at NSL?

[Rick999]

Unfortunately driving like everything nowadays is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. For most people driving is merely a way to get from A to B and nothing more. The powers that be paper to have deemed that imposing lower speed limits will reduce accidents. Well I seriously doubt that this will be the case but I'm sure someone can dig out statistics to say crawling along at 50 or even 40 on a perfectly good road is the way forward. Near to me the A18 Barton street has been reduced to a 50 with double solids whites as some people have been incapable of keeping a vehicle on the road. The last 2 fatal incidents I have attended there showed no evidence of speeding however the knee jerk reaction is to save everyone from themselves, not that most people even bother looking what the limit is.

I often wonder how people manage to get through the day without constant instructions from someone. It's a good job breathing is a spontaneous action.

[Kimosabe]

I propose a system of colour coding to replace speed numbers on road signs and dashboards. Then all we super-intelligent, top of the evolutionary ladder beings would have to do, would be to colour match. 0-10mph Lilac, 11-20mph Green, 21-30mph Taupe, 31-40mph Burnt Umber, 41-50mph Bear Attack Red. Achieving special license exemptions would be necessary in order to have the fitted GPS tracking limiters removed, before being able to reach Bear Attack Red speeds. Speeds in excess of 'Bear Attack Red' would be unnecessary, because as we all know, traveling faster doesn't mean you get there any sooner.

I think if 'NSL' (taken to mean 40mph ish in Sussex) was downgraded from eyeball freezing 60mph to a fragrant '33mph' (the speed at which i'm told death by being hit by a car is greatly reduced), i'd feel happier, as I'd be able to reach a posted target velocity much sooner and i'd be much less aggressive while driving than I allegedly normally am. Nothing winds me up more than getting into one of my lovely, expensive, shiny cars and going for an angry drive around the blossoming countryside of Southern England for the sake of it. Nothing. Not even the Daily Mail letters page on constant update, that I check on my iphone while i'm driving.

If the meaning of the numberless NSL sign was changed from a fight-flight inducing, black diagonal machete attack stripe on a death-white background, to some poetry or a water colour by Monet, the World would be a calmer and safer place. We'd all be sauntering about the back waters like graceful figure skaters, even crap drivers. At the dangerous speeds of over 34mph, the chance of death or serious injury from being hit by a car rises to "around 80%". So it's a win-win where everybody gets to drive at the new ultra-safe, crash-proof speed limit (when it's safe to do so) and nobody dies. Not even camouflaged, unlit, cyclists.

They don't post speed limits in black and white, on red-ringed circular signs like targets for a reason you know. Why anyone would think a sign which looks like a target number is a target number, defies even my incredibly sound lunchbreak logic. Maybe if they used a calming lilac colour instead of angry red rings, we drivers would be less dangerous and aggressive?

Must dash, I have some passive aggressive post-it note messages to stick on people's monitors.

[PeterE]

In other words, sadly, the IAM test (and so training) is, perhaps ceasing to be relevant to most modern drivers.

No, it is more relevant - the more people there are on the road, the more important it is that people drive well... IAM and AD is not all about NSL

But surely one key thing it is about is getting enjoyment out of driving. If it is reduced to strict compliance to unreasonably low speed limits then that will go out of the window.

Sounds bad that Surrey is increasingly becoming 40-land

At least in Derbyshire and East Cheshire they generally haven't gone below 50 on rural A-roads, so I suppose we have to be thankful for small mercies