dealing with aggression

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby chrisl » Thu May 14, 2015 7:34 pm


This is one subject that I've seen very little written about, whether in Roadcraft, Mind Driving or on this forum. Rightly the two books focus on one's own attitude towards driving and other road users. I've seen advice on dealing with tailgaters but that's the only specific discussion I've seen here.

A couple of examples of the sort of thing I have in mind: 1. Van cuts into one's lane on a dual carriageway and apparently retaliates to warning headlamp flash or horn with a series of brake tests. 2. Opposing driver in a narrow street forces one to reverse into a main road to let them by.

First example happened to me in last few days, second to my wife today.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples out there. What are your techniques?

In 1, I already dropped back on heavy braking before the first brake test and had plenty of room, but the chap dawdled in front I guess to sucker me in to trying to (under)take. I didn't.

In 2, my wife felt intimidated to reverse back into a busy road when there was safe opportunity for the other driver to reverse and give way.

So, how best do we deal with aggression directed at us on the road?
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Postby martine » Thu May 14, 2015 8:35 pm


I've not come across either of your examples. If someone is showing signs of aggression or impatience or road-rage (call it what you will) probably best to give them plenty of space and don't retaliate (of course). Just keep cool, take the moral high-ground and let them calm down. Don't make eye contact, don't give any signs back that might be interpreted as aggression.

They will quickly lose interest and get on with their journey and you yours. If they don't, simply turn off, put a loop in, pull over, go all the way around a roundabout or whatever works to get more space between them and you.

Life's too short to get into mini-battles.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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Postby akirk » Thu May 14, 2015 9:24 pm


simply don't engage...

the most amusing I had was on a country lane near here - no room for two abreast - muddy grass either side, I was in my low-slung XJS, facing me was a stereotypical cotswold lady in her shiny range rover - would she put any wheels on the grass? no - I had my two left wheels on the muddy grass, but still couldn't get past - she tried to get me to reverse, so I simply put the handbrake on, picked up a book and enjoyed some wodehousian wit :) she eventually gave in and put some mud on her shiny paintwork!

having spent 7 hours driving into and out of London today, there are plenty of opportunities for being passive and allowing the idiots to enjoy themselves!

passive / non-agressive / there isn't much they can do...

Alasdair
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Thu May 14, 2015 10:16 pm


I generally find that if I make a mistake and someone is inconvenienced by it, and they get annoyed, putting a hand up to apologise really does defuse the situation before the other driver gets too infuriated.

However, if it's just other drivers being needlessly aggressive for no reason, then just remain calm, and be firm.

If you have somewhere you need to be, then it's better just to let them have their way and let them go and leave it well alone, however if you're not in a hurry to get anywhere, then you can sit there and remain relaxed, and do what Alasdair did, and read a book! :P Generally, just refuse to allow the other driver's aggressiveness force you to do anything. However, this method may take a while, and the other person may demonstrate boundless stupidity in their attempts to force you out of the way.
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Postby true blue » Fri May 15, 2015 12:38 am


There's a third one for your list - the driver who bimbles along while you're behind him then changes into bat-out-of-hell mode as soon as you overtake.

It happened to me a couple of months ago. There was nothing unusual or dubious about my overtake, but the white van took exception to it for some reason. I spent the next few miles with him far too close to my rear bumper, with him driving very aggressively on the straights and fast-in-slow-out through the corners. Happily we then parted ways with nothing untoward happening.

I think that the car one is driving provokes different reactions. My daily hack (a dull saloon) has done plenty of overtaking, without any problems. My fun car (Jaguar XK8) seems to inspire the odd boy-racer moment, though generally it's fine. In the aforementioned incident I was fortunate enough to have been lent the keys to a 911 with a particularly vocal exhaust. My theory is that the van driver's thought process wasn't "Tosser - I'll show you!" but rather a desire to go to the pub that night and loudly proclaim "some **** in a Porsche thought he was faster than me, but I f***ing showed him in my van".

Perhaps the distinction between a desire to punish me and a desire to prove to himself that he could drive dangerously is irrelevant, but since then I've been more aware of the potential reactions to my driving. It has very occasionally prompted me not to overtake.
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Postby exportmanuk » Fri May 15, 2015 1:00 pm


Probably not an entirely relevant story but I will tell it anyway.

Sometime towards the end of last summer. Out with a group of bikers ( probably about a dozen )
Riding along some country lanes at a respectable pace we happen upon a hot hatch meandering along the carriageway. The lead rider an elderly gentleman fondly referred to as Doddy was gaining on the car but not fast as there were no safe opportunities to get pass it for another mile or so therefore was closing up to a safe following distance. Said hot hatch driver saw us following and upped his pace, so we did the same, still well within our safety zone and maintaining a safe following distance. It appeared this driver wanted to show us how good he was and increased again . We did the same until it became apparent the car driver was going beyond their abilities and taking risks. At this point we had a safe place to pass him and could easily have done so( though maybe not within the NSL) instead Doddy pulled back and we let him get a distance away before resuming our ride.

I guess seeing a bunch of bikes following they could have been afraid watched too much sons of anarchy or something
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Postby chrisl » Fri May 15, 2015 1:23 pm


Interesting replies, thank you.

We aim to take the line of least resistance with people like this, but I guess the difficulty is always going to be dealing with the aggression until the opportunity arrives to take the advice of martine. In the first example I mentioned we went different ways at the next roundabout, but had little opportunity to avoid until that point - the invidious choice was follow him at low speed in lane 2 of a 70mph road or undertake. In the second the invidious choice was face the person down or reverse into a major road. In each situation the apparent choices both came with risks of their own. Perhaps that is the essence of being on the receiving end of aggressive driving - that it presents such invidious choices.

As to flashing lights and using the horn, they are also likely to be seen as aggressive by someone already embarking on aggressive action of their own. I received comments on my Rospa test that I didn't use the horn enough, and I can't remember the last time I used either signal for precisely the reason they can be received in that way.
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Postby EdgarF » Fri May 15, 2015 1:42 pm


chrisl wrote:
As to flashing lights and using the horn, they are also likely to be seen as aggressive by someone already embarking on aggressive action of their own. I received comments on my Rospa test that I didn't use the horn enough, and I can't remember the last time I used either signal for precisely the reason they can be received in that way.


As Dave mentioned in an earlier post, do not use the horn after the event. Many drivers view a horn warning then as a rebuke and take insult. Some might go so far as to react in a similar way to the van driver that you mentioned. Let's face it, tell a bloke that he's useless at football, can't hold his drink or is a slacker at work, and he'll shrug it off. But tell him that he's a lousy driver and...!

The horn should, however, be used to make other road users aware of your presence if you see a potentially hazardous situation evolving. I will often give a long note of the horn when approaching hump backed bridges or blind bends on narrow roads, to make any drivers who might be coming the other way aware of my presence. (Of course, I would not do this between 2330 and 0700 and try to avoid doing it if there are houses in the vicinity). I might also give a short note of the horn if I see a vehicle about to emerge from a side road and the driver not looking in my direction. I will then follow up with an acknowledgment by raising my hands (in a thank you gesture) when the driver looks my way. So far I have not had any adverse reaction from other drivers.
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Postby true blue » Fri May 15, 2015 2:34 pm


StressedDave wrote:2. F$ck off into the distance. Not always that easy... even if someone has loaned you a Porsche

If you overtake and you aren't making progress, perhaps you shouldn't have overtaken in the first place. Someone suddenly waking up and sitting on your rear bumper would also suggest that you've mismanaged the situation.


While I agree entirely with the above, I'm still at a loss as to what I should have done differently. I caught the van easily, and had he maintained a consistent pace would have left him behind similarly easily.

I've found myself choosing not to take a couple of otherwise 'on' overtakes since then, to avoid a repeat scenario.

While I'm far from quick compared to some, the FO option normally works. Any advice on what to do when it doesn't would be gratefully received!
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Postby true blue » Fri May 15, 2015 4:13 pm


Ah - the old 'calm down and take a step back' tactic. Harder to implement when someone's 10' from your bumper, but I'll try to be better disciplined in future...
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Postby TripleS » Thu May 21, 2015 7:04 pm


StressedDave wrote:Italian rules of driving: "what's behind doesn't matter"


Ah, Raul Julia in 'The Gumball Rally.'
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Postby MGF » Thu May 21, 2015 8:05 pm


akirk wrote:simply don't engage...the most amusing I had was on a country lane near here - no room for two abreast - muddy grass either side, I was in my low-slung XJS, facing me was a stereotypical cotswold lady in her shiny range rover - would she put any wheels on the grass? no - I had my two left wheels on the muddy grass, but still couldn't get past - she tried to get me to reverse,


How would reversing help? If it meant that neither of you needed to mount the verge why is her solution less preferable to yours?


StressedDave wrote:
chrisl wrote:2. Opposing driver in a narrow street forces one to reverse into a main road to let them by.

Handbrake, neutral, turn off engine, get out of car, lock door, walk away. What's the other driver going to do?


Call the Police and advise a car has been abandoned in the road holding traffic up? [law abiding citizen]
Get out of his car and beat the crap out of you? [non law abiding citizen].

:)
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Postby Tdcist » Sun May 24, 2015 8:46 pm


StressedDave wrote:
true blue wrote:There's a third one for your list - the driver who bimbles along while you're behind him then changes into bat-out-of-hell mode as soon as you overtake.

That doesn't tend to happen to me... :lol: Actually it does, normally when I'm in the SOOD and they've suddenly seen this big grey estate pass. You have two choices:

1. I generally slow down to a speed whereby I know that I'm not going to get the other driver into trouble. I can carry a bit more speed on occasion than a typical driver (as you know from the driver analysis day) and I'm not going to sucker another driver into a situation he won't be able to cope with.
2. F$ck off into the distance. Not always that easy... even if someone has loaned you a Porsche.


SD I'd like to add option 3. Wait for the twisties and use suitable pace to create a large gap! Anyone, especially the was-bimbling-now-tailgating driver behind, can drive quick in a straight line, it's those corners where men are sorted from the boys!
TDCiST - Dave - Ford Focus 1.6TDCi Zetec S
ROSPA Training Started: September 2014 | Advanced Test: 19/02/15 | ROSPA Grade: Gold! | RoSPA Observer Training - Started!
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Postby akirk » Sun May 24, 2015 9:49 pm


Tdcist wrote:
StressedDave wrote:
true blue wrote:There's a third one for your list - the driver who bimbles along while you're behind him then changes into bat-out-of-hell mode as soon as you overtake.

That doesn't tend to happen to me... :lol: Actually it does, normally when I'm in the SOOD and they've suddenly seen this big grey estate pass. You have two choices:

1. I generally slow down to a speed whereby I know that I'm not going to get the other driver into trouble. I can carry a bit more speed on occasion than a typical driver (as you know from the driver analysis day) and I'm not going to sucker another driver into a situation he won't be able to cope with.
2. F$ck off into the distance. Not always that easy... even if someone has loaned you a Porsche.


SD I'd like to add option 3. Wait for the twisties and use suitable pace to create a large gap! Anyone, especially the was-bimbling-now-tailgating driver behind, can drive quick in a straight line, it's those corners where men are sorted from the boys!


The problem is that they don't realise that they can't drive those corners at the same speed - they will aim to keep up with you and may have an accident... might it be possible in such circumstances that you would be partly responsible for that? The CPS would certainly seem to think so... in a number of cases...

only way to stop agression is to back off - with nothing to feed from there is no need any longer for their agression...

Alasdair
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Postby TripleS » Mon May 25, 2015 7:50 pm


Was there, by any chance, an HPC event on Wednesday 13 May in NW Scotland?

I only ask because Mrs TripleS and I were tootling peacefully down the A894 heading south from Scourie that morning in our motorhome, when we were met by a number of cars being driven north in a, shall we say, 'spirited' fashion. There were two Ferraris, plus BMWs, Porsches, and a dark coloured Mercedes, the latter well onto our side of the road as he whizzed round a RH bend. Naturally I evaded him with no difficulty, 8) but it wasn't the best example of Merc. driving I've seen.

My first thought was that it was an HPC gang, but I could be quite wrong. Maybe it was a completely different set of hooligans. :lol:

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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