IAM masters/RoSPA gold?

[RobC]

No I haven't. From what you say I'm just thankful I don't visit or live in South Glos

Why do you assume the problem is unique to South Glos? Political limits that have nothing whatsoever to do with road safety can be found all over.

My reply was rather tongue in cheek, but if the consensus of opinion is that speed limits are unreasonable then the IAM should represent their members views. I have no speed limit issues local to myself so though so personally don't have a problem.

[RobC]

Also an IAM driver could get three or more speeding convictions and still have their advanced certificate and call themselves advanced

No logical connection there - sorry, speeding points do not denote that a driver is not advanced.

Alasdair

Hi Alasdair

Maybe not but you wont pass the IAM test if you exceed the speed limit and quite rightly in my view.
A driver with 2 or 3 speeding convictions will also pay more insurance than someone without advanced skills an a clean licence.

We are of course way off topic, though anyone reading this thread with a view to joining the IAM or Rospa may be a little surprised at some of the views expressed here.

[Horse]

sorry, speeding points do not denote that a driver is not advanced.

Potentially poor obs., repeated.

[RobC]

We are of course way off topic, though anyone reading this thread with a view to joining the IAM or Rospa may be a little surprised at some of the views expressed here.

The optimist in me would hope that they might find the views refreshing rather than surprising in the context that you imply. That same optimist in me would like to think that those seeking AD are those that actually like to *THINK* about their driving rather than blindly obeying "rules".

Of course, the realist in me knows differently.

But we are talking about speed limits here which are the law. Whatever you may THINK about speed limits, you MUST blindly obey the rules or face the consequencies.

[akirk]

We are of course way off topic, though anyone reading this thread with a view to joining the IAM or Rospa may be a little surprised at some of the views expressed here.

The optimist in me would hope that they might find the views refreshing rather than surprising in the context that you imply. That same optimist in me would like to think that those seeking AD are those that actually like to *THINK* about their driving rather than blindly obeying "rules".

Of course, the realist in me knows differently.

But we are talking about speed limits here which are the law. Whatever you may THINK about speed limits, you MUST blindly obey the rules or face the consequencies.

And thus we go full circle with a discussion about a week ago!
Laws are man made - not all are good or right laws - laws can be changed, they are not absolute etc. etc. Yes of course you face consequences if you break laws as you do with any action you may choose... but does that make you morally corrupt - or 'non-advanced'? open to debate...

Maybe not but you wont pass the IAM test if you exceed the speed limit and quite rightly in my view.
A driver with 2 or 3 speeding convictions will also pay more insurance than someone without advanced skills an a clean licence.

the IAM test is not the definition of advanced driving...
ref. driver and insurance - having worked in that industry - never quite that simple, but yes it would indicate additional risk...

I think some set theory is needed here:

I would hope that we would see that while there is an overlap between IAM and advanced driving, that is all it is - there is much more to advanced driving outside the IAM and plenty of different philosophies right or wrong

we should also see that there is no direct correlation between speeding points and advanced driving - they are not mutually exclusive - if advanced driving is about how the driver moves a vehicle from A to B and we can all I am sure agree that it covers concepts such as safety and smoothness, observation, etc. - but speed only comes into it as a consequence / decision from those other things. Many would agree that a top level police driver is an advanced driver - so if they go down the same motorway as you, you drive at 69 mph and they drive at 101 mph - and both are safe / appropriate / etc. - then we would have no issue in seeing them as an advanced driver - now if you do exactly the same as them, same conditions / setting, same skills and ability you would lose your licence... in that scenario we can clearly see that you would still have been an advanced driver, but you would have no licence...

so the two are not linked in the way you feel they are

Alasdair

[RobC]

Many would agree that a top level police driver is an advanced driver - so if they go down the same motorway as you, you drive at 69 mph and they drive at 101 mph - and both are safe / appropriate / etc. - then we would have no issue in seeing them as an advanced driver - now if you do exactly the same as them, same conditions / setting, same skills and ability you would lose your licence... in that scenario we can clearly see that you would still have been an advanced driver, but you would have no licence...
so the two are not linked in the way you feel they are

Alasdair

Hi Alasdair

An advanced driver without a driving licence isn't an advanced driver...they are a pedestrian

Rob

[Ancient]

Would you consider the drivers on the original Italian Job as "Advanced Drivers" (the characters, not the actors)?

[akirk]

Hi Alasdair

An advanced driver without a driving licence isn't an advanced driver...they are a pedestrian

Rob

fair point - though I think we might argue that they still remain an advanced driver - just perhaps not too legal a driver (on the public highway!)

more seriously - is someone no longer an advanced driver because they have points / lose their licence? Do they suddenly return to being an advanced driver when they get the licence back / clear the points?

Unlikely I think... therefore we can conclude that it makes no difference

Alasdair

[RobC]

Hi Alasdair

An advanced driver without a driving licence isn't an advanced driver...they are a pedestrian

Rob

fair point - though I think we might argue that they still remain an advanced driver - just perhaps not too legal a driver (on the public highway!)

more seriously - is someone no longer an advanced driver because they have points / lose their licence? Do they suddenly return to being an advanced driver when they get the licence back / clear the points?

Unlikely I think... therefore we can conclude that it makes no difference

Alasdair

Hi Alasdair

I agree with you in principle A disqualified Advanced driver and disciple of Bradley Wiggins.

I think a wise man once said that being an advanced driver doesn't bring you happiness, but it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

Rob

[TripleS]

Personally I'd also like to see NSL retake its old meaning of "derestricted".

With you on that.

Ditto.

Best wishes all,
Dave - predictable as ever.

[TripleS]

Personally I'd also like to see NSL retake its old meaning of "derestricted".

With you on that.

Sounds like a boy racers charter. Unfortunately Speed limits ARE a target to some.
What you would find is a lot more 17 to 24 year olds killing themselves driving their Corsa's albeit at perfectly legal speeds .

Not necessarily.

Based on my observations, whenever there's been a bad shunt on rural roads in our part of the country, there's a clamour for a reduced speed limit on that section of road. What these people fail to recognise is that many of these shunts happen to people who take no notice of the limits anyhow; so lowering the limit isn't going to help.

[RobC]

Not necessarily.

Based on my observations, whenever there's been a bad shunt on rural roads in our part of the country, there's a clamour for a reduced speed limit on that section of road. What these people fail to recognise is that many of these shunts happen to people who take no notice of the limits anyhow; so lowering the limit isn't going to help.

Yes but we were discussing making the speed limit higher by making NSL derestricted not lowering the speed limit.

Reducing the speed limit in accident blackspots may not be the answer but possibly its better than doing nothing and waiting for the next fatality

[TripleS]

We are of course way off topic, though anyone reading this thread with a view to joining the IAM or Rospa may be a little surprised at some of the views expressed here.

The optimist in me would hope that they might find the views refreshing rather than surprising in the context that you imply. That same optimist in me would like to think that those seeking AD are those that actually like to *THINK* about their driving rather than blindly obeying "rules".

Of course, the realist in me knows differently.

But we are talking about speed limits here which are the law. Whatever you may THINK about speed limits, you MUST blindly obey the rules or face the consequencies.

....or better still; make sure you drive safely, and don't get caught disobeying the rules.

[TripleS]

I have no speed limit issues local to myself so though so personally don't have a problem.

You are very fortunate then.

Round here we seem to have acquired a number of 'buffer zones' in recent years. These are sections of road - anything from 200 yards to half a mile or more in length - that used to be NSL, but now have 40 mph limits outside villages. I suppose the idea is that if you get people down to 40 mph early enough, there a better chance that they'll get down to 30 mph by the time they reach the village itself.

I'll willingly get down to 30 mph (or less if appropriate) for the village, but as far as I'm concerned the buffer zone is NSL...or derestricted.

[TripleS]

Not necessarily.

Based on my observations, whenever there's been a bad shunt on rural roads in our part of the country, there's a clamour for a reduced speed limit on that section of road. What these people fail to recognise is that many of these shunts happen to people who take no notice of the limits anyhow; so lowering the limit isn't going to help.

Yes but we were discussing making the speed limit higher by making NSL derestricted not lowering the speed limit.

Reducing the speed limit in accident blackspots may not be the answer but possibly its better than doing nothing and waiting for the next fatality

Well it might be better, but not by much: at least that's my feeling.