ADUK Archive

I live in a rural area and some 17 to 24 year olds are killing themselves on winding NSL rural roads at less than the current NSL.
Is a speed limit a sufficient deterrent for those with poor skills/attitude probably not, but it is at least some deterrent. By taking away the NSL you are not removing a target but simply increasing its size.
The reason that no politician would be brave enough to remove the NSL is that if we do we can be almost certain that the KSI figures will increase.

Oh and this has nothing to do with the difference betwiim IAM and Rospa!

StressedDave wrote:

RobC wrote:Sounds like a boy racers charter. Unfortunately Speed limits ARE a target to some.
What you would find is a lot more 17 to 24 year olds killing themselves driving their Corsa's albeit at perfectly legal speeds .

I doubt a change to the speed limit would do anything to the accident rate as it is relatively ignored once traffic density is reduced.

If that were the case it would be pointless having speed limits

It is alright lowering the speed limits to compensate for the one's that are causing problems for the rest, why not restrict the problem age that way not everyone is being penalised like it is at the moment.
We could introduce the Australian method of speed restrictions at certain times for certain ages along with other restrictions this way the ones amongst us who are experienced enough and had some form of further training to make us a better driver drive at the higher speed limits.
Oh, and before everyone says how are we going to Police it, easy it Polices itself as the errant ones go to the Police by committing the offence in the first place.

RobC wrote:
If that were the case it would be pointless having speed limits

A satori moment. Welcome to the world of elightened advanced drivers.

RobC wrote:If that were the case it would be pointless having speed limits

They are pointless. They're simply a convenient beating stick as speed is objective (subject to measuring it accurately), rather than having to provide evidence/dispute in court DWDCA.

Carbon Based wrote:

akirk wrote:I suspect because post test training is not really understood - or measurable...

Anything can be measured. The bigger question is whether the data is actually reliable or even relevant to whatever particular goal you may have.

A whole new thread, perhaps . . . albeit relevant [tenuously] to this one as IAM do fund training-related research.

StressedDave wrote:...when it comes to DLAC/DLARC...

I looked up DLARC and 'the internet' says it means "Delaware-LeHigh Amateur Radio Club' - I'm guessing that's not your use of the abbreviation - but I may be wrong .

Please enlighten me oh Stressed one.

jcochrane wrote:

RobC wrote:
If that were the case it would be pointless having speed limits

A satori moment. Welcome to the world of elightened advanced drivers.

Another whole new thread me thinks, driving for test vs driving to avoid speed traps

mefoster wrote:

martine wrote:

StressedDave wrote:...when it comes to DLAC/DLARC...

I looked up DLARC and 'the internet' says it means "Delaware-LeHigh Amateur Radio Club' - I'm guessing that's not your use of the abbreviation - but I may be wrong .

Please enlighten me oh Stressed one.

I believe the acronyms to be "Driving Like A ..." and "Driving Like A Right ..."

You see, everything has degrees.

Dont you just hate jargon and acronyms, I think Cnut is the word the Police use

Interestingly, in motorcycling 'DLAC' often becomes 'RLAT'.

I was asked once to explain the term to someone who didn't understand the abbreviation, so told them 'Riding Like a Lady Garden'

RobC wrote:

jont wrote:

RobC wrote:As far as speed goes we can only legislate for the road type and area and average driver.

No, we /could/ legislate at any level (or aspire to change the "average"). But politicians choose to take the easy option What they seem to forget is that if you legislate for the lowest common denominator, the idiots tend to drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

I agree with that, but we were talking about use of speed and I don't think that most speed limits are set too low even for an advanced driver, though there may be a case for increasing the motorway speed limit where traffic would allow.

really - your comments seem to based on some idealistic concept with no reflection of reality...
loads of roads now well below safe speed limits

Alasdair

akirk wrote:

RobC wrote:

jont wrote:
I agree with that, but we were talking about use of speed and I don't think that most speed limits are set too low even for an advanced driver, though there may be a case for increasing the motorway speed limit where traffic would allow.

really - your comments seem to based on some idealistic concept with no reflection of reality...
loads of roads now well below safe speed limits

Alasdair

Hi Alasdair

No not really, The speed limits haven't been put there without a reason. I don't agree with them all but I don't drive at the maximum safe speed for the road and road conditions as Im not a Police pursuit driver and that is not my style of driving.

Also an IAM driver could get three or more speeding convictions and still have their advanced certificate and call themselves advanced, wheras I have to inform the DVSA of any motoring convictions and could be considered 'not a fit and proper person' and loose my livelihood.

Rob

RobC wrote:No not really, The speed limits haven't been put there without a reason.

Clearly you've never tried to discuss an unreasonable speed limit reduction with your local busybodies^w councillors, when the proposal goes against DfT advice.

jont wrote:

RobC wrote:No not really, The speed limits haven't been put there without a reason.

You obviously haven't visited South Glos recently Vast swathes of countryside have lost their NSL for 40s or 50s (despite the fact that the minor roads off them are NSL). For starters I'd suggest all of those should immediately be put back to NSL. Personally I'd also like to see NSL retake its old meaning of "derestricted".

Clearly you've never tried to discuss an unreasonable speed limit reduction with your local busybodies^w councillors, when the proposal goes against DfT advice.

Hi Jon

No I haven't. From what you say I'm just thankful I don't visit or live in South Glos

Rob

RobC wrote:No not really, The speed limits haven't been put there without a reason. I don't agree with them all but I don't drive at the maximum safe speed for the road and road conditions as Im not a Police pursuit driver and that is not my style of driving.

Correct - there is always a reason for putting in / changing a speed limit... but increasingly it has nothing to do with safety / the road - but political reasons or other bizarre reasons! for example, it used to be that you drove through a 60 (NSL) approahing a village, there you see a 30mph sign and slow down... That was changed to 100 yeard markers for 300 yards warning you that there is a 30mph speed limit ahead... then a 40 zone either side of the 30mph... then warning signs that there is a 40mph ahead - we now have over 1/3 of a mile of warnings and buffer zones for a change which used to be fine and never caused any issues... elsewhere it is not in place but still goes from 60-30 - why, what is the difference - in examples around here it is not road conditions where there are straight roads approaching the village - it is simply the politicking of the villagers... and as the majority of people ignore the signs all that happens is that then more 'calming' is requested - the law abiding citizen now has a very disrupted journey, those who ignore it carry on ignoring it - no logic at all...

RobC wrote:Also an IAM driver could get three or more speeding convictions and still have their advanced certificate and call themselves advanced, wheras I have to inform the DVSA of any motoring convictions and could be considered 'not a fit and proper person' and loose my livelihood.

No logical connection there - sorry, speeding points do not denote that a driver is not advanced.
Having said that, as far as I remember from when I filled in my annual IAM membership forms - you had to declare any speeding points, not sure of any consequences because I have never had any...
It is quite right that anyone who is a 'professional' in driving should have a tougher regime, ADIs / truck drivers / bus drivers / taxi drivers / etc. - there should be a higher expectation of professionalism - certainly there is case law to suggest that the courts expect that...
but an ADI could certainly be a non-advanced driver and still have no points while someone who was an advanced driver could indeed have points. not sure why you feel that the two are so intrinsically linked - yes there are links, but not that direct

Alasdair