Horse wrote:Not mutually-exclusive aims!
Sounds like the main achievement was teaching drivers that they are driving diesel trucks, not petrol cars
jont wrote:Horse wrote:Not mutually-exclusive aims!
Sounds like the main achievement was teaching drivers that they are driving diesel trucks, not petrol cars
Horse wrote:jcochrane wrote:chrisl wrote:Fair enough, thank you. (Although I do find it helpful to read the theory behind all this, including different opinions.)
The key to the System of Car Control, which is at the heart of Roadcraft and teaching from IAM and RoADA, is in the timing of its elements. Not really something you can get from a book.
Ah, the old "What's the secret of comedy?" gag. Doesn't work so well in print form
What you can do, having read these books, is try the principles for yourself. I don't think 'timing' is covered explicitly in RC, but it's like most things travel-related, in being inherently connected to speed and distance.
There is a knack to it: work 'backwards'!
For example:
To drive 'through' a turn, you need to be comfortable with applying throttle, and need to know where you will apply it and how much.
You'll also need to have decided a comfortable speed from which to apply power and from that can decide which gear.
So from 'throttle on' position, work backwards 'upstream'. Allow space for gear changes, prior to that (leaving out BGOL for now) have enough road space in which to slow.
If trying and learning, then you'll also need additional 'thinking' time to mentally talk yourself through it. That time requires distance. So the additional lesson is that if it all feels rushed then you're going too fast
Horse wrote:chriskay wrote: Oh, eco driving may be something you're trained to deliver, but I've reached an age when I just want a bit of (safe) fun.
Not mutually-exclusive aims!
akirk wrote:Horse wrote:chriskay wrote: I just want a bit of (safe) fun.
Not mutually-exclusive aims!
they can be...
the more I have learned to enjoy the car, the more the mpg falls - and yet that would seem to be the antithesis of eco-driving
StressedDave wrote:
Your disdain of IAM examiners gives a fair hint as to your thoughts... I think it's more a case of what people here consider 'advanced' - I think there's a definition agreed with the DVSA that may not tally with what you do as a day job. I'm not a member of either organisation, so I can't comment on that one.
Horse wrote:chriskay wrote: Oh, eco driving may be something you're trained to deliver, but I've reached an age when I just want a bit of (safe) fun.
Not mutually-exclusive aims!
Transfer of fuel-efficient driving technique from the simulator to the road: steps towards a cost-benefit model for synthetic training
A.M. Parkes & N. Reed.
TRUCKSIM is a programme of research focused on simulation as a training delivery tool for skills development in qualified truck drivers. This paper reports on results from a longitudinal cohort study that sought to provide an analysis of the benefits of synthetic training in the area of fuel efficiency improvement. 36 drivers attended the truck simulator on three separate occasions and received training designed to improve driving style in a range of traffic situations. Apparent fuel consumption figures were recorded during each simulator visit, and compared to real world fuel consumption records for the same drivers.
The results revealed a picture of improvement in the simulator of several aspects of driving performance. Drivers made an 11% increase in their fuel efficiency over the three visits to the simulator, with the biggest gain being made during the first visit. It was also clear that drivers retained what they had learned from one visit to another as fuel efficiency did not deteriorate between visits. The simulator data showed that drivers were handling the vehicle in a much more efficient manner. Average RPM observed during periods of acceleration dropped by 22% resulting in the engine operating in a more efficient region and generating 45% higher torque. There were also 29% fewer gear changes over the course of the drives. It would be easy to assume that drivers simply slowed down to achieve these improvements but the data show that drivers were actually around 8% faster overall.
hir wrote:Err, NO! I don't think you understand, chriskay mentioned the word FUN.
chriskay wrote:RobC; I think you'll find that most of us here have chosen to increase our level of driving competence, many to a high degree, in order that we can enjoy our driving more. Oh, eco driving may be something you're trained to deliver, but I've reached an age when I just want a bit of (safe) fun.
StressedDave wrote:RobC wrote:Most drivers including myself alter their driving style to suit the vehicle they are driving, their mood or traffic and road conditions.
I'm not sure that I agree with that being a good aim - particularly in an 'instructor' (Not sure if you use that term for what you do). I certainly wouldn't expect the vehicle to be in any way a controlling factor (save perhaps in a 7.5 tonne where the limits are significantly different), nor should mood have an effect, nor indeed should road conditions. I'm probably talking more about the quality of the drive and the consistency of margins.
IME those who have different distinctive styles tend to be poorer drivers. One of the question I often ask is whether what they've just delivered is their normal style or some act put on because I'm sitting next to them.
StressedDave wrote:RobC wrote:Most drivers including myself alter their driving style to suit the vehicle they are driving, their mood or traffic and road conditions.
I'm not sure that I agree with that being a good aim - particularly in an 'instructor' (Not sure if you use that term for what you do). I certainly wouldn't expect the vehicle to be in any way a controlling factor (save perhaps in a 7.5 tonne where the limits are significantly different), nor should mood have an effect, nor indeed should road conditions. I'm probably talking more about the quality of the drive and the consistency of margins.
IME those who have different distinctive styles tend to be poorer drivers. One of the question I often ask is whether what they've just delivered is their normal style or some act put on because I'm sitting next to them.
jcochrane wrote:StressedDave wrote:RobC wrote:Most drivers including myself alter their driving style to suit the vehicle they are driving, their mood or traffic and road conditions.
I'm not sure that I agree with that being a good aim - particularly in an 'instructor' (Not sure if you use that term for what you do).
I'm probably talking more about the quality of the drive and the consistency of margins.
IME those who have different distinctive styles tend to be poorer drivers. One of the question I often ask is whether what they've just delivered is their normal style or some act put on because I'm sitting next to them.
The best drivers I have been driven by have developed "their style" A style that defines their driving. For example people may say (hopefully) "I like his style of driving and aspire to drive like that".
The other feature that stands out with the very best drivers is the consistency of delivery of that style.
mefoster wrote:There appear to be differences as to what constitutes a "style" in this discussion. Unless you're all talking about the same thing - which I am quite sure that you're not - you're not going to get very far.
mefoster wrote:There appear to be differences as to what constitutes a "style" in this discussion. Unless you're all talking about the same thing - which I am quite sure that you're not - you're not going to get very far.
Horse wrote: . . . which elements of 'style' are ones to aspire to?
jcochrane wrote:mefoster wrote:There appear to be differences as to what constitutes a "style" in this discussion. Unless you're all talking about the same thing - which I am quite sure that you're not - you're not going to get very far.
I was about to say the same. I'm thinking driving style pertaining to the driver not scenarios.
Rather crudely put but a driver with a smooth style remains smooth in different scenarios. A driver with an erratic style remains erratic in different scenarios. Of course it's not quite that simple but hope the example serves.
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