DVSA examiners

[Horse]

I was about to say the same. I'm thinking driving style pertaining to the driver not scenarios.

Rather crudely put but a driver with a smooth style remains smooth in different scenarios. A driver with an erratic style remains erratic in different scenarios. Of course it's not quite that simple but hope the example serves.

To add... I find it unsettling if the drivers style is not consistent and mixes styles, one moment smooth the next moment erratic.

Put another way. If you had just driven with someone and I asked you to describe his driving. Your answer is likely to be to describe his style.

As I said:

“Is their riding safe?”
“Is the riding in control?”
“Does the rider know what they’re doing and why?”

Which ties reasonably well with Safety Smooth Style.

Now, Q‘3’ isn’t just about ‘style’, it also encompasses far more about the rider’s awareness and the decisions they make. But from decisions come style, even self-expression.

[akirk]

thank you - that is a great summary - a lot of aspiration there!
(the skoda comes in 10 days - couldn't afford the porsche! )

Alasdair

[RobC]

Most drivers including myself alter their driving style to suit the vehicle they are driving, their mood or traffic and road conditions.

I'm not sure that I agree with that being a good aim - particularly in an 'instructor' (Not sure if you use that term for what you do). I certainly wouldn't expect the vehicle to be in any way a controlling factor (save perhaps in a 7.5 tonne where the limits are significantly different), nor should mood have an effect, nor indeed should road conditions. I'm probably talking more about the quality of the drive and the consistency of margins.

IME those who have different distinctive styles tend to be poorer drivers. One of the question I often ask is whether what they've just delivered is their normal style or some act put on because I'm sitting next to them.

Hi Dave

Ecodriving is useful training, though I'm not suggesting that it has to be used all the time just as a police driver wouldn't drive in response mode all the time.
Most drivers including myself alter their driving style to suit the vehicle they are driving, their mood or traffic and road conditions.

I was comparing Ecodriving with Police response driving as a different style of driving. If you are saying that those who have distinctive driving styles are poorer drivers, what does this say of Police Class I drivers changing their style from response to 'normal' police driving?

As an trainer/instructor why would I not want to be aware of different styles of driving?

You are quite right however that if you are assessing a driver, then they are often driving differently than their normal style because they may be driving to how they think the examiner wants them to drive or possibly differently because of test nerves.
In an hours driving assessment you can only make a judgement based on that hour and I don't find drivers drive in different styles on an hours assessment. I assessed an excellent driver yesterday who also drove a high powered motorcycle and his driving style on his motorcycle was quite different than his car driving by his own admission however that doesn't mean he wasn't driving to 'Roadcraft' style of driving or was in any way unsafe or he would be driving to a poorer standard.

Rob

[RobC]

I was comparing Ecodriving with Police response driving as a different style of driving. If you are saying that those who have distinctive driving styles are poorer drivers, what does this say of Police Class I drivers changing their style from response to 'normal' police driving?

As I said earlier: the word "style" is being used to describe quite different things by different people here. The discussion is likely to prove fruitless and frustrating if you all continue taking about different things using the same terms.

Did anyone bring the popcorn?

ETA: What Rob is describing, IMO, is the nature/purpose/function/type of the drive. Not the style of the driver.

Agree, its getting a bit like Monty Python. 'Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour'

[TripleS]

There appear to be differences as to what constitutes a "style" in this discussion. Unless you're all talking about the same thing - which I am quite sure that you're not - you're not going to get very far.

I think I'll settle for agreeing with that.

[Matt62]

As always, a fascinating discussion but I am not sure how relevant the last parts would seem to the majority of viewers or contributors to the site?
To elaborate; I personally became interested in 'advanced driving' because many years ago someone in the company I worked for decided that all of the company car drivers should take (and pass) the ROSPA test. Accordingly, we all had a couple of hours training with an interesting, if slightly insane ex police fleet trainer and then booked our tests. I ended up with a 'Silver' and an interest in 'AD', somewhat inspired by the examiners comments. Three years later, reading Roadcraft got me a 'Gold', and I have maintained this ever since over a number of re tests. I find forums such as this one, interesting, but I cannot imagine that I would ever join a local ROSPA or IAM group. I am almost certainly a far safer (and probably faster) driver than I was before I took the first test, but I can't imagine that I would pass muster against many of the enthusiasts and/or professionals who contribute regularly to the discussions on here.
For me, the most important thing is not perfection and 'style' but encouraging a larger number of people to improve their driving beyond the point that they descended to after gaining a full licence.

[RobC]

For me, the most important thing is not perfection and 'style' but encouraging a larger number of people to improve their driving beyond the point that they descended to after gaining a full licence.

Hi Matt,

I fully agree with your comments

Rob

[TripleS]

For me, the most important thing is not perfection and 'style' but encouraging a larger number of people to improve their driving beyond the point that they descended to after gaining a full licence.

Hi Matt,

I fully agree with your comments

Rob

+1

[akirk]

As always, a fascinating discussion but I am not sure how relevant the last parts would seem to the majority of viewers or contributors to the site?
To elaborate; I personally became interested in 'advanced driving' because many years ago someone in the company I worked for decided that all of the company car drivers should take (and pass) the ROSPA test. Accordingly, we all had a couple of hours training with an interesting, if slightly insane ex police fleet trainer and then booked our tests. I ended up with a 'Silver' and an interest in 'AD', somewhat inspired by the examiners comments. Three years later, reading Roadcraft got me a 'Gold', and I have maintained this ever since over a number of re tests. I find forums such as this one, interesting, but I cannot imagine that I would ever join a local ROSPA or IAM group. I am almost certainly a far safer (and probably faster) driver than I was before I took the first test, but I can't imagine that I would pass muster against many of the enthusiasts and/or professionals who contribute regularly to the discussions on here.
For me, the most important thing is not perfection and 'style' but encouraging a larger number of people to improve their driving beyond the point that they descended to after gaining a full licence.

encouraging people to improve is indeed very important...
a realisation though that:
- the driving test is not the end of the abilty journey
- that IAM / RoSPA is not the end of the ability journey
will both help that purpose...

the great thing about the internet is that not eveything has to be of interest to everyone, and I certainly hope that we don't dumb down the discussion on here to items only considered to be of interest to the majority...

we used analogies recently of music - it would be like saying lets not discuss pavarotti / freddie mercury / {insert top musician here} as the majority of folks won't reach that level...

in reality the discussion here about style is as applicable to someone in IAM / RoSPA as it is at higher levels - if the majority of those viewing, or members of this forum have no interest in that then I can only imagine that they are fixated on AD being about roadcraft and passing IAM / RoSPA exams - and that is to miss the point enormously

Alasdair

[GS]

It's interesting to hear 'style' being mentioned.

Some police schools tried to introduce the 5th S (Style) into courses some time ago. I think they tried to start introducing it at 9 am one Monday morning and gave up at 9.30 the same day!

I do think some drivers have a style which can be seen and felt, but I'm not sure that it can be taught. I also think that style adds to the drive and can be reflected in an assessment's or test's marks. For example, style may not in itself be the only difference between being a class 1 or class 2 driver, but I think it is often is the difference between a 'just' class 1 and a good class 1.

Lots of people can be taught to do somethings mechanically, but I think few end up doing it stylishly.

[akirk]

I don't think that developing a style moves you forwards in ability...
but moving forward in ability should lead to development of a personal style

not surprised you can't teach it - but it is good to be conscious of style as an indicator of ability...

Alasdair

[Astraist]

You would also be amazed how two drivers with different "upbringings" can differ in driving style, even on the confines of the tightest of roads.

Alternativelly, you will be just as amazed to see how two drivers of the same "school of thought" can be strikingly similar in driving style, even in different cars!

[Horse]

I don't think that developing a style moves you forwards in ability...
but moving forward in ability should lead to development of a personal style

not surprised you can't teach it - but it is good to be conscious of style as an indicator of ability...

^ Yup, that. In the Safety-Smooth-Style format I mentioned, it comes as much from recognising the varieties that Astraist mentions - different ways of achieving the same aim.

For instance, in biking 'style', I'm a 'Hailwooder' - knees tucked in, body usually in-line with the bike. However, some riders prefer - for whatever reasons - to hoon around hanging off their bikes like gibbons off trees*. The challenge is to ensure that they achieve Safe and Smooth while riding the way they want to. Do they understand what they're doing & why?

* Not a technical description of their style, you understand

[Ancient]

For instance, in biking 'style', I'm a 'Hailwooder' - knees tucked in, body usually in-line with the bike. However, some riders prefer - for whatever reasons - to hoon around hanging off their bikes like gibbons off trees*. The challenge is to ensure that they achieve Safe and Smooth while riding the way they want to. Do they understand what they're doing & why?

* Not a technical description of their style, you understand

Not a technical description of a certain Mr Mamola's style? ISTR a crash recovery where he was making progress with only his throttle hand in contact with the bike, swung back on and picked it up again!

[Horse]

Not a technical description of a certain Mr Mamola's style? ISTR a crash recovery where he was making progress with only his throttle hand in contact with the bike, swung back on and picked it up again!

In WSB years ago, someone threw away the bike while exiting from a bend towards the straight alongside the pits. As the rider tumbled across the grass the bike rejoiced in its new-found freedom, righted itself, and carried on along the straight until it finally slowed and gradually veered left and fell over at the far end of the pits.

Often, the worst component is the rider . . . stopping the bike from doing what it wants to do!