Block Gear Changes

[true blue]

Are you suggesting that Roadcraft precludes block changing up the 'box? I've never read that in my copy!

In fact, my version says that one should "engage a chosen gear without going through an inermediate gear first"!

[WhoseGeneration]

In fact, my version says that one should "engage a chosen gear without going through an inermediate gear first"!

If that's page 61, it says much more and your reference is just about being a driver able to be versatile in use of the gears, which, of course, is part of being a capable driver.
I could reference the "rapid progress" comment.
I refer you to my statement, "any other is free to do what suits them".

Eta, I don't want to get confrontational about this, because I'm sure all here are able to decide for theirselves how to use the gears in their vehicles to best suit their approach to driving.
My way suits me, your's you.

[RobC]

All Roadcraft says is to be in the right gear at the right time.

Says it all, upshifts are about progress, so, take all gears, downshifts approaching a hazard, brake or lift, select the appropriate gear to negotiate the hazard,whilst ensuring that gear will enable progress from that hazard. Really simple, if we're talking Roadcraft.

At some point, you don't need any more 'progress' and just want a sensible cruising gear.

I'm coming to the end of a 30mph village, in 3rd gear. I pass the NSL sign, and accelerate briskly up to 60mph in 3rd gear, nowhere near the redline. 5th is a sensible gear for a 60mph road with no twisties. Why would I go via 4th?

Completely agree with you.

To me Roadcraft saying you should be in the right gear at the right gives no practical advice at all about changing gear as the correct gear at any given time is a matter of opinion.

Strange that the 'bible' of advanced driving makes no mention of a technique that aids economy, safety and mechanical sympathy.

[RobC]

In fact, my version says that one should "engage a chosen gear without going through an inermediate gear first"!

If that's page 61, it says much more and your reference is just about being a driver able to be versatile in use of the gears, which, of course, is part of being a capable driver.
I could reference the "rapid progress" comment.
I refer you to my statement, "any other is free to do what suits them".

Eta, I don't want to get confrontational about this, because I'm sure all here are able to decide for theirselves how to use the gears in their vehicles to best suit their approach to driving.
My way suits me, your's you.

I have what I think is the latest version of Roadcraft and page 61 is about tyre grip trade off.

Page 66 is the page on gears, I agree it does say "engage a chosen gear without going through an intermediate gear first" but that's all it says and is that going up the box or down the box or both. There isn't any reference to block changing as a technique or the benefits of it.

You're not being confrontational, we can do things our own way but I would also expect guidance from others.

Also as I said before this is my local examiners view on the subject

The issue of block changing was mentioned and xxxx said that this is never taught to Police drivers. He was
particularly scathing about the use of block changing whilst changing up – saying that this can
never be justified as it would mean over revving in a lower gear.

[akirk]

Also as I said before this is my local examiners view on the subject

The issue of block changing was mentioned and xxxx said that this is never taught to Police drivers. He was
particularly scathing about the use of block changing whilst changing up – saying that this can
never be justified as it would mean over revving in a lower gear.

here we should reference that other recent thread on revs / over-revving...
for an examiner to say this can never be justified is of course nonsense - really, for all cars / all gear boxes / all situations - it will always lead to over-revving?
with a decent petrol engine with a long rev range there are plenty of opportunities to block shift in either direction without going anywhere near rev limits etc. It isn't difficult to find a speed where for example the car could happily be in a number of gears without issue - driving a 911 earlier this year the owner commented that it could sit in 3rd all day as it would pull away in 3rd, and happily be totally illegal the other end in 3rd... that means that there are plenty of choices where 1 / 2 / 3 would be okay, or 2 / 3 / 4 or 3 / 4 / 5 - any point in an engine / gearbox combination where a range of 3+ gears would be possible allows block changing without over-revving I have owned a car where it would happily accelerate to the legal limit in 2 / 3 and then change across to 5th - in fact a number of my cars have been happy doing that...

Alasdair

[RobC]

Also as I said before this is my local examiners view on the subject

The issue of block changing was mentioned and xxxx said that this is never taught to Police drivers. He was
particularly scathing about the use of block changing whilst changing up – saying that this can
never be justified as it would mean over revving in a lower gear.

here we should reference that other recent thread on revs / over-revving...
for an examiner to say this can never be justified is of course nonsense - really, for all cars / all gear boxes / all situations - it will always lead to over-revving?
with a decent petrol engine with a long rev range there are plenty of opportunities to block shift in either direction without going anywhere near rev limits etc. It isn't difficult to find a speed where for example the car could happily be in a number of gears without issue - driving a 911 earlier this year the owner commented that it could sit in 3rd all day as it would pull away in 3rd, and happily be totally illegal the other end in 3rd... that means that there are plenty of choices where 1 / 2 / 3 would be okay, or 2 / 3 / 4 or 3 / 4 / 5 - any point in an engine / gearbox combination where a range of 3+ gears would be possible allows block changing without over-revving I have owned a car where it would happily accelerate to the legal limit in 2 / 3 and then change across to 5th - in fact a number of my cars have been happy doing that...

Alasdair

Hi Alasdair

I agree with you and think its another case of an examiner being wrong, however Roadcraft gives virtually no mention of block changing and he is convinced he is right.

I also agree that the use of block gear changing depends on the vehicle though with modern vehicles block gear changing can be appropriate even in small engine cars.

Rob

[Gareth]

I agree with you and think its another case of an examiner being wrong, however Roadcraft gives virtually no mention of block changing and he is convinced he is right.

It's sad that you've met an examiner who is too thick to understand the sentence in Roadcraft about skipping intermediate gears. It's also good that you're questioning it.

As true blue quoted "engage a chosen gear without going through an inermediate gear"

[jcochrane]

Oh FFS...

Roadcraft is a manual for the tuition of Police drivers. It says lots of things that make sense operationally. They do not make sense when mangled into a way of driving without the benefit of the standard exemptions on speed and dangerousness (The latter being a construct of a CPS lawyer who, in his advice to a prosecution team somewhere in London, stated "the public expect the Police to arrive promptly at an incident. Therefore, in the vernacular, they are allowed to drive a little more dangerously than the general public". The incident in question being a PC failing to stop at a Give Way line where there was naff all vision and harpooning a car proceeding along the main road).

Now can we stop the various circular arguments which are along the lines of 'my examiner told me this and I think it is wrong and I'm going to spend several pages repeating myself'. Pretty much every examiner works on the NIH method. If it wasn't invented by his Police driving school, it doesn't exist.

Well put SD. Sometimes easy to forget there is police driving and then there is road driving. Similar but not quite the same.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

And to continue the pragmatism - just do what works and feels right at the time!

Going up, if you've reached a cruising speed and have no need for further acceleration, engage the appropriate gear.

Going down, if you need a particular gear for a hazard, slow to the appropriate speed, then select that gear (unless in some kind of vehicle that won't let you use the low speed in the higher gear you were in before).

Or if you feel like it, use every intermediate gear for greater acceleration / engine braking. You're in charge.

[RobC]

Oh FFS...
Now can we stop the various circular arguments which are along the lines of 'my examiner told me this and I think it is wrong and I'm going to spend several pages repeating myself'. Pretty much every examiner works on the NIH method. If it wasn't invented by his Police driving school, it doesn't exist.

I haven't met pretty much every AD examiner, but it doesn't sound like a good system to me!

[RobC]

Oh FFS...
Now can we stop the various circular arguments which are along the lines of 'my examiner told me this and I think it is wrong and I'm going to spend several pages repeating myself'. Pretty much every examiner works on the NIH method. If it wasn't invented by his Police driving school, it doesn't exist.

I haven't met pretty much every AD examiner, but it doesn't sound like a good system to me!

It isn't but neither the IAM nor RoSPA seem particularly bothered with the idea of consistency or even ensuring that the examiners are singing from the same hymn sheet. Persumably this costs money that they don't really have.

Agreed, that's the impression I have. Im sure they have some staff on high salaries, maybe the money coud be better spent in other areas

[Silk]

Who does them both up and down the gearbox?

Everyone who isn't WRONG.

[Silk]

Well put SD. Sometimes easy to forget there is police driving and then there is road driving. Similar but not quite the same.

Don't police drivers drive on the road, most of the time?

[Stephen]

On my advanced course it was a 5 week intense course in conjunction with reading my Roadcraft book and putting it into practise.
It did include block changing /intermediate etc whatever you want to call it ,this was encouraged both up and down the box with acc sense ,we also had to use acc sense as opposed to using brakes when overtaking this helped you get your observation , planning , and prioritising and going through each chapter and mistakes until inch perfect.
If you want to use and refer to Roadcraft then get it right if not go and get a course that teaches you how to to it correctly and practically, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. I will stand back and wait for the fall out.

[RobC]

On my advanced course it was a 5 week intense course in conjunction with reading my Roadcraft book and putting it into practise.
It did include block changing /intermediate etc whatever you want to call it ,this was encouraged both up and down the box with acc sense ,we also had to use acc sense as opposed to using brakes when overtaking this helped you get your observation , planning , and prioritising and going through each chapter and mistakes until inch perfect.
If you want to use and refer to Roadcraft then get it right if not go and get a course that teaches you how to to it correctly and practically, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. I will stand back and wait for the fall out.

Agree, Roadcraft is only a reference book and not a very comprehensive one on some aspects its seems.

Roadcraft doesn't teach you advanced driving since that is a practical skill. To be an advanced driver you also need to be able to think for yourself.