Dealing with cars slowing down ahead of you on slip roads

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby chrisl » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:28 pm


Yes we were going northbound so it was solid chevrons. I've just reviewed the dashcam footage but it's a front camera only unfortunately, so it doesn't show the build-up or the second lorry approaching from behind. In the event I did slow down then speed up, so there was room to do as you suggest. I was not anticipating the deliberate blocking.

The slip-road is rather shorter than it looks - I have to drive the car flat out from the lights on the roundabout to reach 50+ by the end of the solid line, particularly in view of the steep gradient.
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Postby akirk » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:32 pm


the area in which you should move across legally is a smaller portion of the slip road - but there is a lot of the slip road before that where you are running parallel to the road and during which you can be checking traffic / planning / adapting - one error that many people make is where their visibility / planning sits - lots of drivers will drive down a slip road and only plan the join once they get towards the end - the secret in situations like this is to be planning much earlier and adapting where necessary

Alasdair
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Postby gannet » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:01 pm


Kimosabe wrote:
gannet wrote:Ancient and mefoster - far more eloquently put than I would have put it :D

hate dashcam warriors such as these...


Just to clear up this point, though I do agree when it applies to dashcam warriors, the reason he gives for having a dashcam is due to a previous accident, as sort of stated to a Welsh copper who pulled him over on the outskirts of Llanowhere in this video at 5:30s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fisd2pckMOU


Haven't watched that follow up, and I've got no problem whatsoever with recording your driving/using a dashcam to record in the event of an accident. I even do so myself on my bicycle commute...

What I have got a problem with is him then using the footage to then comment on other drivers around him using youtube. Who made him judge and jurior especially when as others have already pointed out his own footage shows that he isn't the best driver out there?

Comes over as holier than thou, which is just a bad attitude.

I've never actually shown my bike footage on youtube. I have submitted it to the authorities/company officials when requested though.
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Driving: Citroen DS3 DSport 1.6THP / MINI Cooper Coupe :D
Riding: Airnimal Joey Sport... (helps with the commute into London during the week!)
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:17 pm


If you're going to dashcam, keep it private, for use when it might be beneficial to you in terms of an insurance claim or proving something in a court.
I'm sure others here remember a member who fell foul of his dashcam footage, with commentary, criticising other drivers.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby Kimosabe » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:27 pm


WhoseGeneration wrote:If you're going to dashcam, keep it private, for use when it might be beneficial to you in terms of an insurance claim or proving something in a court.
I'm sure others here remember a member who fell foul of his dashcam footage, with commentary, criticising other drivers.


I agree. He's hardly a paragon of good driving himself but I get the impression that he could benefit from a few observed drives with someone who sees the spark and who could redirect his desires to see improved driving on our roads, back onto him. I think he's just doing what he thinks everyone does when they buy a dashcam. Might be nice to see this discussed in the next edition of Roadcraft 8)

We are somewhat straying from the point of this thread, which was to discuss the various issues to do with slip roads but I think this is a discussion worth having on another thread.

I find that many of the poor outcomes on slip roads, are caused as a result of the behaviour of the traffic already on the motorway prior to the slip road. The Gatwick slip onto the M23 Northbound springs to mind here.

In the video, I think there could have been an element of 'i'm alright jack' from the drivers in Lane 2, who may have forced the towed caravan driver to have to stay in Lane 1 due to being limited to 60mph, which i'm going to assume he was doing. This then directly affected the Horsebox on the slip, who it looks like saw the caravan coming and decided to not cause him to have to brake and this then travelled back up the slip affecting other drivers. Yes all the slip road traffic could have observed a slow mover ahead and slowed accordingly, and yes the towed caravan could have either slowed down to allow the horsebox on or moved into Lane 1 earlier thus leaving it clear but that would no doubt have vexed the other traffic in Lane 1, who probably sat in that lane in a long line of traffic for miles and who were probably oblivious to all of this, while hoping it would all get out of the way. Just my thoughts and guesses. If he had not have posted this video, I couldn't have used it as an example.

>end poirot mode :wink:
A wise man once told me that "it depends". I sometimes agree.
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Postby Kimosabe » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:32 pm


mefoster wrote:
Kimosabe wrote:Just to clear up this point, though I do agree when it applies to dashcam warriors, the reason he gives for having a dashcam is due to a previous accident, as sort of stated to a Welsh copper who pulled him over on the outskirts of Llanowhere in this video at 5:30s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fisd2pckMOU


So he bought a dashcam so that he could collect evidence of bad driving. Hmmm.... One might presume that the irony is completely lost on him.


I think he bought a dashcam as a result of a previous accident and assumed that everyone posts dashcam footage, so he did too. He's one of many who are trying to make Youtube channels from the mistakes of others and as someone else has said, it could be construed by some as being holier than thou. I don't take it that way, I just watch and think about how I might have done things differently in the hope that I may learn something.... like never to drive in Russia :wink:
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Postby chrisl » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:41 am


akirk wrote:the area in which you should move across legally is a smaller portion of the slip road - but there is a lot of the slip road before that where you are running parallel to the road and during which you can be checking traffic / planning / adapting - one error that many people make is where their visibility / planning sits - lots of drivers will drive down a slip road and only plan the join once they get towards the end - the secret in situations like this is to be planning much earlier and adapting where necessary

Alasdair


Yes, you are quite right.

The more I've pondered it, I've realised one big mistake was to allow the van to take over my concentration, perhaps a kind of morbid fascination, which allowed my knowledge of what was going on behind me on the slip-road to go stale. I'd planned my entrance to the A12 between two lorries, but didn't allow for adapting that plan in the (admittedly diminishing) time and space available.

Ultimately I slowed because I had to - in spite of the traffic behind - but the point I take from this is that there may have been more room behind than I thought, which would have still allowed a planned and more graceful entrance to lane 1.
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Postby TripleS » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:34 am


Kimosabe wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:If you're going to dashcam, keep it private, for use when it might be beneficial to you in terms of an insurance claim or proving something in a court.
I'm sure others here remember a member who fell foul of his dashcam footage, with commentary, criticising other drivers.


I agree. He's hardly a paragon of good driving himself but I get the impression that he could benefit from a few observed drives with someone who sees the spark and who could redirect his desires to see improved driving on our roads, back onto him.


If it's the young chap I'm thinking of, was he not a prominent member (or even an official) within his local IAM group, and possibly even the holder of an IAM F1RST certification - or something like that?

At the end of the day there's no guarantee of good driving at all times, whatever we do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby akirk » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:43 am


chrisl wrote:
akirk wrote:the area in which you should move across legally is a smaller portion of the slip road - but there is a lot of the slip road before that where you are running parallel to the road and during which you can be checking traffic / planning / adapting - one error that many people make is where their visibility / planning sits - lots of drivers will drive down a slip road and only plan the join once they get towards the end - the secret in situations like this is to be planning much earlier and adapting where necessary

Alasdair


Yes, you are quite right.

The more I've pondered it, I've realised one big mistake was to allow the van to take over my concentration, perhaps a kind of morbid fascination, which allowed my knowledge of what was going on behind me on the slip-road to go stale. I'd planned my entrance to the A12 between two lorries, but didn't allow for adapting that plan in the (admittedly diminishing) time and space available.

Ultimately I slowed because I had to - in spite of the traffic behind - but the point I take from this is that there may have been more room behind than I thought, which would have still allowed a planned and more graceful entrance to lane 1.


but the positives are that you still moved on to the A12 okay, you are able to dispassionately analyse it which is always a good sign of an AD - and next time you will simply shoot out the van's tyres before it becomes an issue :D

Alasdair
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Postby chrisl » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:25 pm


akirk wrote:but the positives are that you still moved on to the A12 okay, you are able to dispassionately analyse it which is always a good sign of an AD - and next time you will simply shoot out the van's tyres before it becomes an issue :D

Alasdair


That's a very kind observation, thank you. (I'm first in the queue for when photon torpedoes become a cost option :twisted: )
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Postby Kimosabe » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:58 pm


TripleS wrote:At the end of the day there's no guarantee of good driving at all times, whatever we do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Indeed.
A wise man once told me that "it depends". I sometimes agree.
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Postby Kimosabe » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:19 pm


StressedDave wrote:
TripleS wrote:If it's the young chap I'm thinking of, was he not a prominent member (or even an official) within his local IAM group, and possibly even the holder of an IAM F1RST certification - or something like that?

At the end of the day there's no guarantee of good driving at all times, whatever we do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Ah yes, good old Dom. He seems to have disappeared from here (and indeed Pistonheads after the rogering he received there)


That's a shame. I wonder what his lasting impression of this forum and PH is and if that was the reason for him throwing in the towel? Perhaps it was just time for him to move on to other things. I've certainly felt that way at times.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:35 pm


A bit like the warrior in the posted videos, he imagined he was a great driver and things "happened" around him because everybody else was a bad driver. When it was pointed out that he could have anticipated some of the happenings, he got all huffy :)
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Postby triquet » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:39 pm


God it happened again today:

A34 Southbound, Chilton junction. Car A had come to the end of the slip road and stopped dead in the water. Car B had stopped 50cm (18" old money) from his back bumper. Stuff (including me) were sailing past on the main carriageway looking on in sympathy ... :mrgreen:
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Postby Kimosabe » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:40 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:A bit like the warrior in the posted videos, he imagined he was a great driver and things "happened" around him because everybody else was a bad driver. When it was pointed out that he could have anticipated some of the happenings, he got all huffy :)


At least he's trying. I still see the spark :roll:

If one day he realises that he has been making the same mistakes as those he criticises, what does he do? Recall the criticisms and jibes from people who said they knew better, just like him or recall the offer of someone who gave him constructive advice and the possibility of improvement? I think he might be more of a carrot chaser than a stick hater.

This reminds me of the 'legend of the empty glass cabinet at IAM HQ' reserved for the perfect driver.
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